About This Episode
The debate over remote work versus office work continues, but many organizations are asking the wrong question. Instead of focusing on where employees work, leaders should be asking how work creates value and what conditions help people perform at their best.
In this episode of the Future of Work® Podcast, Frank Cottle speaks with HR strategist and leadership expert Ranya Nehmeh about why hybrid work remains one of the most misunderstood topics in business. Drawing from her research and her book In Praise of the Office, Ranya explains why flexibility alone is no longer enough. Organizations must intentionally design hybrid work around collaboration, mentoring, innovation, and business outcomes rather than arbitrary attendance policies.
Together, they explore leadership, change management, talent attraction, AI adoption, workplace flexibility, organizational culture, and why good managers ultimately determine whether any workplace strategy succeeds. Whether your organization is fully remote, hybrid, or office-based, this conversation offers practical guidance for building workplaces that balance employee expectations with organizational needs.
About Ranya Nehmeh
Ranya Nehmeh is a senior HR strategist specializing in people strategy, leadership development, HR policy, and talent management. She has held senior HR positions at the OPEC Fund for International Development and the European Central Bank and lectures at the University of Applied Sciences for Management & Communication in Vienna. She is the author of The Chameleon Leader and has co-authored several influential articles with Wharton professor Peter Cappelli on HR strategy, workplace agility, leadership, and talent management.
What You’ll Learn
- Why hybrid work should be designed around business value rather than attendance.
- How intentional leadership improves hybrid work outcomes.
- Why flexibility remains essential for attracting and retaining talent.
- The importance of explaining the “why” behind workplace policies.
- How mentoring and collaboration influence workplace decisions.
- Why AI adoption adds another layer to hybrid work strategy.
- How HR’s role is expanding during organizational change.
- Why change management is becoming a leadership priority.
- The relationship between workplace flexibility and organizational culture.
- Why strong managers remain the foundation of every successful workplace strategy.
Transcript
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:00:00,150 ]Because, at the end of the day, as we said before, you can have the best laid out plans of any kind. But one poor manager will ruin everything. So I really think it falls stands and falls with good management. If I were to say, you know, for somebody’s organization, go and evaluate your management and then see who is really doing a good job and who is not. If it can be, they can be improved or not.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:00:29,290 ] Renya, welcome to the Future of Work podcast. I’m really excited to have you here today.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:00:35,150 ] Interested to hear all about your new book and the research you’ve been doing—uh, overall, in your book, In praise of the office.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:00:46,150 ] It’s not really an anti-remote argument.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:00:49,880 ] Uh, overall, but it does bring up the question of the conversation of either or. It tries to go away from that a little bit, saying you don’t have to be in the office, you don’t have to be remote. How do you blend remote, hybrid, in the office, etc all together and have a reasonable conversation that wins the battle for talent. At the corporate level.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:01:20,080 ] Hi Frank, first of all, it’s a pleasure to be here, so thanks for having me. Um, so I love that question because you know, obviously, when we chose the title in praise of the office, it sounds very much like, ‘We want everybody to come back to the office,’ right? But in fact, one of the biggest misconceptions of this debate— Thank you— is that it’s not really about coming back to the office, but more about how organizations create value. And this is really what we were saying in the book: it’s not about whether you’re now working at home or in the office. It’s about the work that you’re doing, and it’s about—if we are going to continue with hybrid—how do we make hybrid work? Because we have seen that actually, hybrid has a lot of challenges. And these are the challenges that we also tackle in the book as well.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:02:11,810 ] Well, you know, I’ll raise two things. The whole purpose of solving this problem is to get the best employees.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:02:21,120 ] And to keep the best employees within a company. That’s the whole purpose of this. In office, out of office, remote, hybrid, et cetera. And we work with a company, Randstad. You might be familiar with them, the largest human resources management company in the world. And they tell us. That if they include the words remote or hybrid in a job description, they get a five to one response.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:02:47,770 ] So if I’m trying to win the battle for talent, how do I not include?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:02:56,580 ] Flexible work, management, eye bread, vote, or an option of some sort. In my program.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:03:04,830 ] And win that battle for talent.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:03:07,830 ] Mhm. The thing is, you know, Frank, it’s really about you can be pro-flexibility, but still be pro-organizational needs. And I think that is what organizations are still struggling to get right. So yes, of course.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:03:24,330 ] Flexibility is important. I think it is part of the employee value proposition. That is clear. I don’t think we can really um— you know— dispute that, but it’s really about how it is done. Because we also see that in a lot of remote-first companies they are seeing the benefits also of actually meeting in person, especially for younger generations and for younger employees who really need that interaction. And actually, many of them prefer to be in office because they realize that they can collaborate better. Their mentoring is stronger. Um, they can learn more from other people so you know these benefits are we see them now as well.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:04:08,610 ] Well, you know, I agree with the mentoring and all of that. I’m not sure that mentoring all has to be done in person.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:04:17,290 ] By the way. All right.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:04:20,480 ] We’re doing a podcast right now speaking to thousands or hundreds of thousands of people.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:04:26,650 ] They’re going to take our words. We hope. And consider them as part of their own expansion. So I’m not sure all of entering has to be done in person. That’s my own. Believe.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:04:38,660 ] I just spoke with a gentleman yesterday, as a matter of fact. He started the first remote-first company that went through an IPO.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:04:51,610 ] You may know the company GitLab, a big, very, very well-known company. And he’s a proponent of remote-first. Remote-first, et cetera.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:05:03,260 ] What we as a company have settled on ourselves is a stage step. We say, kinda, you know, first year in the office.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:05:16,760 ] Second year, hybrid opportunity.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:05:20,760 ] You have to earn it a little bit. You have to prove that. Third year. Full remote, we don’t care.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:05:27,270 ] So we have a staging process where we think. Yet people earn the right to more freedom. As they would in any other aspect of their job. Uh uh, overall and that seems to work pretty well for us. So we’ve only got a couple hundred people. Therefore, we’re not a big company. But what’s your thought on Doing things with intention instead of reaction?
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:05:55,670 ] Um, you said exactly what I was just about to say, which is the word of intention. Um, But first of all, maybe just to go back. This staged approach I really i think is a great idea because, even um, I read like last week, I think Revolute, which is a remote-only company now, they have said that their 2027 graduates and interns who are joining their talent programs they are requested to be in office at least three days a week. Uh, for the first year, because that’s where they will learn and they will meet people and they will integrate, you know. Into the company and then the second year they can go back to remote first. So I definitely agree with this staged approach. With intention is critical. And I think this is what a lot of organizations have. Possibly not done well because just because somebody’s hybrid does not necessarily mean it’s working well. What I mean by that is, if you want me to drive in 30 minutes to get to the office, to sit in a Zoom call all day by myself, it defeats the purpose of hybrid.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:07:07,710 ] That’s why when we say with intention, we mean bring people in to do the things that they do better together rather than what they do better at home.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:07:18,760 ] Well, no, I think that’s obvious. It should be.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:07:23,770 ] You would think that, Frank, but it’s not.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:07:28,550 ] I think what that teaches us is that policy.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:07:34,150 ] of to be or not to be remote or hybrid or office.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:07:40,290 ] without good management behind it is pretty much a worthless policy. It does. You will fail at any policy if it’s not well executed and thoughtfully executed on all aspects of it. You can’t do that all the time. You know, it’s impossibly perfect all the time, but there are many things that should be very, very obvious to companies.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:08:05,120 ] And are you saying that those things, without that being an outlier example, are you saying that you’re seeing that sort of Miss.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:08:16,040 ] management of policy is a common problem or is it an outlier that needs to be dressed still but is getting better and better and better? Are we getting better at this or are we just continuing to confuse ourselves? I guess that’s what.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:08:33,150 ] And I think we are continuing to confuse ourselves because, still, we are talking about the same things right now that we were talking about two years ago. Which is how to get it right. So if we were learning from that, why are we still having these conversations?
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:08:48,270 ] And that is why, also, in our book, we had proposed this framework, which is basically helping leaders how to tell people or how to have a good hybrid practice or how to tell people to come back to the office, but not in a way that feels like they’re being mandated to come back. So it’s really about telling them why. Why do you have to come to the office? You know, is it for mentoring or brainstorming or problem solving? There has to be certain reasons. And it should not be to come to have meetings all day by yourself. So I think the why has not been communicated very well. And then, of course, there is the ‘how How are you doing it? You know, are you having shared patterns and shared rhythms with your colleagues, or do I get to see my colleagues only once every two weeks?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:09:37,090 ] Well, let’s define ‘hybrid’ a little bit. A hybrid, in most cases, is, I think, the standard is three days in the office, two days out of the office.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:09:49,100 ] That’s pretty common that we see as a process overall.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:09:54,770 ] But what we’re not seeing is the inclusion of third workplaces in that model effectively.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:10:03,089 ] Where the days out of the office might still be together with colleagues, but in a third workplace, in a co-working or business center. Any other facility that is common and convenient to a team that needs to work on something, or to individuals, just because of their proximity.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:10:23,280 ] So I think that’s a missing component. To the policy structures that we see a lot of companies having.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:10:32,280 ] Have a good one. Either or.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:10:35,300 ] But they haven’t really thought through all of the options for either of those processes.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:10:42,330 ] Mhm.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:10:43,690 ] I think I’ve seen, Frank, a lot of companies, they also claim that they have hybrid, but actually they allow one day a week that you work from home. So, you know, this three, two, sure.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:10:56,130 ] Yeah, so you know it’s like—I think hybrid is really um, it can be one day working from home, it could be three days working from home. I think you know, it’s really depends. But then you know, when you talk about co-working space and all of that, I also think again, why?
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:11:13,560 ] It’s really about the value that we create when we’re together. So it’s like the concept of hot desking, you know? You bring people. Together and you think that that is something that’s a good oh they’re all sitting next to each other but that’s not necessarily the case because you’re not sitting next to your team members you’re not doing what you should be doing as a team right so It’s really about the why we come together and I think that is still something that a lot of organizations are not doing that well yet.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:11:43,080 ] Well what’s the solution then?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:11:47,099 ] The solution can’t be as simple as using the words intentional because those are words as opposed to practice.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:11:56,360 ] Um, Companies are constantly in flex. Change goes. Change in personnel, change in objectives, change sometimes in the location of that corporate headquarters. Uh, So there’s a lot of flex and flux always going on. So how do you begin managing this?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:12:19,190 ] As opposed to talking about it? Or will we continue to talk about it for the next 20 years?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:12:25,570 ] This didn’t start with the pandemic.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:12:28,130 ] The battle for talent, flex systems, and that was very aggressive in the 2015-16 era. Especially among the techs and finance companies. And I remember back in the 1990s, sorry to say how old I am, but back in the 1990s when telecommuting was all the rage for both environmental reasons as well as operational reasons.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:12:56,010 ] So Flex started, in fact, in the 80s, we were doing outplacement Flex with companies in the aerospace industry.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:13:04,280 ] Um, so This isn’t a new issue. Overall.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:13:12,530 ] um i think you’re right it’s not a new issue but i do think that it kind of catapulted with the pandemic right so of course it was being discussed before that you know we’ve been discussing the workplace anyway for you know years and years but i think that this all of these issues really just kind of were were very obvious during the pandemic because That is when at a large scale, because maybe the talks before were on a smaller scale, but the pandemic showed us that on a large scale, we can do our work. from home. We don’t have to come to the office. And I think that is really the trigger. for all of these conversations.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:13:52,590 ] I still think that we will be having them years down the line. You know, when we finished writing the book, and it was out, that was last year. And I already thought back then, well, is this topic already maybe you know is it over? Is it already redundant? It turns out it was not at all. Because only now, even a few weeks ago, you know, let articles in the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal about again—uh, talking about return to office and you know, the good and the bad and the ugly of it. So you know, it’s obviously still something we’re talking about.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:14:26,880 ] Well, a lot of it has been progression of technology, of course. Um, uh, back in the 1980s, it would have cost us 200 to 300 an hour to have this video meeting.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:14:40,080 ] Okay. And you would have had to go to a video conference center or a specialized location or a large corporation to have this. Today, we don’t even think about it. You know, it’s ubiquitous. It’s like the air we breathe. I’m wondering when we say ‘bring to the office’ mentoring this and that, what advances in technology?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:15:01,070 ] Um, will happen? Have you seen any um concerts or presentations that are holographic?
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:15:09,690 ] No, I have not yet. They’re real.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:15:13,300 ] They’re real. I’ve been in a couple of holographic rooms, some test stuff. It is amazing. It is amazing. It’s like I’m walking right into a Star Trek environment. I’m wondering, as technology progresses.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:15:30,720 ] Um, uh, I know Cisco years ago had a technology for video comedy called Telepresence, which matched up conference rooms, did a whole bunch of exotic stuff. It wasn’t a commercial success, but it was very interesting. Press forward. I’m wondering, as we go to holographic, if we will— which we will. I’d say within five years we’ll be in holographic meanings. Um, if that’s going to change yet again, our concept of presence.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:16:05,300 ] If technology will be more of an impact than policy on presence.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:16:12,180 ] you know, I love when I see how technology is progressing. However, there is— at least personally. There is really nothing like, even with the holographic, that you’re mentioning. Imagine watching a concert like that. But then, is it really the same, like watching a concert when you’re surrounded by so many people and there’s an energy that you feel you know you don’t have?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:16:37,210 ] No, no, no. In the concerts, you have the people. The only hologram is on stage. Uh-uh.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:16:44,580 ] Yeah.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:16:45,980 ] Yeah, but you know, I think that’s a great question and I would really be curious to see how the future evolves when it comes to these things. But I think that still there is a lot to be said about in person again it doesn’t have to be every day we’re not talking about coming into the office every day but we are talking about, for example, a lot of things that we took for granted, you know, like how you collaborate, how you innovate.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:17:13,030 ] You know, a lot of innovation doesn’t come with you yourself behind a laptop. It comes from talking to people, from brainstorming. How do we learn? We learn a lot from osmosis, from being around people, seeing how decisions are done, especially in younger careers. So I think all of these are difficult to replicate online. And it’s not the same thing.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:17:35,640 ] I can agree with some of that. The thing that that I miss, from online versus in person, is humor.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:17:48,910 ] Humor. Humor.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:17:50,070 ] To me, some person in the meeting that can poke fun at what we’re doing and we all agree.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:17:58,710 ] Happens much more in person.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:18:01,890 ] Much more in person. Than it happens when you’re.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:18:06,000 ] Yeah.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:18:06,510 ] Having a meeting that looks like Hollywood squares.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:18:10,120 ] You lose the humor and humor is so important to us as in our human condition.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:18:18,410 ] Um, so you know there are certain things that I agree with you where just don’t come through overall. The tarn. I ask another question. When we look at AI and when we look at adaptation of almost anything. Smaller companies adapt faster than larger companies.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:18:40,360 ] Companies of less than 250 employees or less than 500 employees just move faster. Um, they can, you know, then, large, certainly, large multinational companies which have to consider all variety of things. Um, Do you think that those companies, like, they lead in so many things, are really the unsung or the unnoticed leaders in the adaptation of remote hybrid flex, all these things, and that they maybe are winning that battle for talent. Over some of the other larger companies.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:19:19,050 ] I mean, I do agree that in smaller organizations, perhaps, that you know, there’s quicker decision making, right? So, there’s less hierarchy, the less bureaucracy, um, the stakeholder management perhaps is not as complicated or as complex. So, I do think that things, you know, they go faster. But at the end of the day, it’s about. The policies that you have in place, you can be a small 250-size company, but still have maybe management that really is very firm about, I have to see you in the office every day, and they make people come in every day.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:19:55,390 ] At the end of the day, does that win the talent?
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:19:58,550 ] No. Does that win? I don’t think so.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:20:01,190 ] I don’t think so either.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:20:02,450 ] So it’s about leadership, isn’t it, at the end of the day?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:20:06,410 ] If you don’t have good leadership and good management, it doesn’t matter what size company you are, you’re not going to earn a lot of talent. And if you don’t, then ultimately you’re on a downhill slide. And we’ve seen this all over the world in different things, different companies, and we always will see. Um, you know, talent raises and talent likes to to come together too. Really smart people prefer to hang out with other really smart people. So once you can get something going in a certain direction. I think that is honestly an argument for the office. Is that really smart people like to hang out. Together. Um, they aren’t necessarily the lone wolves. Um, they like to purely remote. Some people like to, I like to, I am a Lone. Water. I have been for 35, 40 years, built several companies, but I prefer to be working by myself.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:21:08,370 ] Um, and so there are. I’m probably the odd person out in that regard.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:21:15,530 ] is not normal.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:21:18,050 ] No, I think it is normal, Frank. It is normal. But I think, you know, maybe also a lot of people do not have— maybe that luxury as well. Too. I think you know, we see right now that there’s so many people who are branching away from companies to become like solo entrepreneurs and to start their own businesses. You know, over the last two to three years, because they want the flexibility, they want to be able to work from anywhere. Um, but of course it depends also on your business model. I think not everybody can can be successful at that. So then they have to you know go back to working for a company, perhaps.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:21:52,500 ] I think it really depends on on your plants.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:21:57,110 ] Well, you know, it’s funny. I’m going to blend AI with return to the office and work models a little bit. Um, using AI.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:22:10,250 ] Well, I would say today, all companies are international.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:22:14,590 ] They have an international supplier and an international employee or a contract of some sort. All companies are internationally. A three-person company, a one-person company is international. So that’s the first comment.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:22:27,890 ] The second comment is, Um, a person today using AI can be three to five times more effective than a person not. So.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:22:40,320 ] If I want to work remotely as a privilege, I have to embrace AI to be more effective than I would be in the office.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:22:54,679 ] Overall. And if I am, then I’m gonna do okay. I have to. I have to use more. It’s not just my management as an individual.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:23:05,890 ] We’re all managers. We’re managers of ourselves.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:23:09,440 ] Everybody’s an executive. I’m the CEO of me. You’re the chairman of you. So. As we’re all managers and we all have to manage ourselves first.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:23:22,750 ] The tools we choose to use— if we’re going to work, not just with others, but effectively with ourselves— are critically important choices we make today.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:23:35,180 ] Or choices that we upflow through management. Saying we need these tools so that we can work more effectively on a hybrid basis or a remote basis, or when we’re in a team together, all three.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:23:49,810 ] Um. What are your thoughts about policies, processes in that regard? Are you seeing people blend these two topics together?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:23:59,720 ] Or are they separate issues that you’re seeing in most of the companies that you work with?
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:24:05,590 ] And by the topics you mean like AI and hybrid and yeah. Um, honestly, I see that there is also a lot of conversation about this right now. Um, and one of the main topics is really— you know, if we’re already having a hard time with hybrid, so when you add in the AI element, it is going to get even more difficult because, at the end of the day, AI is not just a technology that you say to your employees, ‘Hey, here you go It’s really about it being a change management process. You know, how do people use it? They have to learn how to use it. They have to be involved in using it. They need to see and identify their own roles and see which part, maybe, can be done a little bit by an AI.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:24:50,300 ] They have to redesign work by themselves. So, how do you do that? You need to do that collectively. As your own boss, like if I’m self-employed now, as my own boss, I know what I’m doing, so I just go ahead and do it right. But when you are obviously working in an organization, you have layers, you have your managers, you have your supervisors. And I think here it is going to be very interesting to see exactly you know, how the work is being redesigned. And I think, unless an organization really does hybrid well, it will add on another layer of challenge to it.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:25:26,490 ] Do you think that HR departments really need to perform a fundamentally new role?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:25:34,000 ] That they have historically done.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:25:36,700 ] I think that HR doesn’t it’s not a fundamentally new role, but I do think that we need to take on a new kind of new challenges. I think a lot of HR is not doing that right now. I read a statistic last week that 27% I think of HR departments are still not using any kind of AI or that they are really not even comfortable with it, or maybe it was even a higher number than that. But the point is is that they really need to get more involved.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:26:09,580 ] Because it’s not just at an HR level, this is at an organizational level.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:26:14,920 ] Well, you know, it is funny because the big complaint from the job seeking community is that all the AI bots and filters that HR uses. Reads all the CVs and all the resumes and sets all the appointments now and has become such a depersonalized process. Getting a new job.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:26:36,070 ] So we’re in this period of flux. Change management is always the most difficult part of. Growing an organization or staying relevant as a company, you have to be able to do that overall.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:26:52,479 ] Flex is one of those things in the workplace that’s a change management issue.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:26:59,480 ] And AI certainly is one of those. They can go together. And if you’re going to take one Big recommendation, the big important recommendation, so to speak, that you would want our audience to do? The one thing they should all do next week. I’m putting you on the spot, I know. But the one thing they should do that would that you think would make a difference in how companies grow their business or grow their teams more effectively. What would it be?
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:27:36,040 ] Well, I would really say have good managers, like go back and see who’s good. Man, who you have, which are good managers, and who are not. Because, at the end of the day, as we said before, you can have the best laid out plants of any kind. But one poor manager will ruin everything. So I really think it falls stands and falls with good management. So, if I were to say, you know, for somebody’s organization. Go and evaluate your management. And then see who is really doing a good job and who is not. And if they can be improved. Or not, because that will make or break also your culture.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:28:16,810 ] Well, you know. It’s interesting that you say that because, we could have said that same thing. For the last 2000 years.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:28:27,530 ] And we will say that in the next 2000.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:28:30,290 ] I hope we do say that. You know, a lot of times people look for new stuff.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:28:36,990 ] to make a difference. And many times it’s the core basics that are the most important. So thank you very much for. bringing that back out. as a point of attention.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:28:48,820 ] Thank you.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:28:50,120 ] Well, it’s really been great having you here today. appreciative of your work. I know how much depth you’ve created in your new book.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:28:58,940 ] and all the research that you do continuously. So again, thank you very much for sharing your thoughts.
Ranya Nehmeh
[ 00:29:06,240 ] Thanks so much, and thanks again for having me, Frank.
