Management Secrets For The Hybrid Workplace with Kari Smith

Frank Cottle [00:00:00 ]:
Kari, welcome to Future Work podcast. Really great to have you here, especially considering all the amazing work that you’ve been doing with JLL. Can you tell us in a little more detail, a little more granular detail, what you actually do for JLL? I mean, your bio is amazing, but, but tell us what, what you’re actually doing and how it works.

Kari Smith [00:00:23 ]:
Of course, Frank. And thank you for this opportunity to be on this amazing podcast. I am a director at JLL within their consulting group, within work dynamics, and what I specialized in is change management and change leadership. So I’m incredibly passionate about helping clients through different workplace strategy and the adoption of that strategy as they’re looking at implementing hybrid work or a variety of different strategies within their organization. And I really focus more on the change leadership side of things versus the workplace strategy side of things is I really love connecting with the human element and helping clients really help that adoption of those shifts in the future of work and really seeing it come to life with the end user, and that is incredibly rewarding.

Frank Cottle [00:01:17 ]:
Well, change management in large organizations is about the hardest thing to deal with. You have to get everybody that was marching in a circle to march in a straight line or marching back and forth to all go the same direction and at multiple layers. Because I know you guys deal with very large corporations, especially as when you have to not just shift people, but shift facility with people. That massive task.

Kari Smith [00:01:51 ]:
Yes, it can, but it is so rewarding when you have an incredibly good leadership that is helping to lead the change within the organization and that great connection with the team to help with that implementation. That is one thing I find incredibly exciting and rewarding.

Frank Cottle [00:02:14 ]:
The change that you’re dealing with is changing from traditional status, role based office layouts, things of that nature, to more human based design, things that have to do with office layouts that really change the way we work, not just change the space, but the entire organizational structure of companies sometimes, and the roles that people play with hybrid work coming along, remote work, all the things that are outcome from before and during the pandemic. How is that shift to human based design versus facility role based design really working? Is it 10% of the companies, 100% of the companies, 10% of the space, 90% of the space? What impact is this having?

Kari Smith [00:03:12 ]:
Yeah, at JLL, we are seeing majority of our clients come to us now, really as they finalize their future workplace strategies or their future of work and looking for help with the implementation of those changes. So majority of clients are shifting to that hybrid working and not having assigned spaces and as however we call it, like, is it activity based or is it unassigned or mobility? And really implementing that strategy moving forward, which I find incredibly exciting. I personally haven’t had an assigned desk since 2006, so it is a preferred way of working, and I love helping companies through that journey. So it’s really great. Since the pandemic, we’ve seen the adoption of this type of working in a hybrid way and not having that assigned office or workstation to individuals has really shifted.

Frank Cottle [00:04:10 ]:
Well, define, you reference hybrid work. Yeah, that’s a term that a lot of people bandy around and everything. Give me your definition of what hybrid work is. Let’s agree on a definition there so that everybody understands exactly what we’re talking about in that context. How does JLLC hybrid work function?

Kari Smith [00:04:31 ]:
So JLL sees hybrid work as being able to have that flexibility and choice to come into the office, not just five days a week, but you work within your organization on what those guidelines are. Working some hybrid, or, excuse me, working some virtual and working some in person to best align with your team’s needs, your enterprise needs, and individual needs.

Frank Cottle [00:04:56 ]:
But you have to be scheduling that activity, otherwise you’re going to have traffic congestion, everybody showing up at the same time, at the same place for the same desk. So there’s processes for that. Are you seeing companies make a recommendation, say, well, we want our hybrid work to look like two days a week in the office, two days a week maybe at a third workplace, and one day a week at home or some mix. How are you seeing that? Because hybrid isn’t just remote work and then come into the office occasionally, correct?

Kari Smith [00:05:33 ]:
Yeah, you’re seeing a lot of organizations are defining what their hybrid work is for them. Right now we’re seeing that being implemented. Most clients that I’ve been talking to and a lot of the industries I’ve been supporting in the last three years have been automotive or financial industries. And we’re seeing a lot of those industries finding their sweet spot for hybrid is the three days a week which majority of organizations are moving towards. Some, I would say, like the auto would be more two. So they’re having a little bit more flexibility on what makes sense for them.

Frank Cottle [00:06:10 ]:
You know, the three days a week leaves unless you’ve really got a good calendar going, organizational and people stick to it, and people, and that’s part of an issue too. The flexibility people need can easily leave if it’s not well run, a lot of underutilized space, and we know that from the commercial real estate side of the world, which you guys are hugely involved in that larger organizations, or all organizations are reassessing their total space use, and in most cases, upon renewal of a lease, they’re reducing the amount of space.

Kari Smith [00:06:50]:
Yes.

Frank Cottle [00:06:51 ]:
So are you seeing material increases in space use efficiency, or is that still struggle because it wasn’t particularly well used before? You know, you know, 40, 50% efficiency before. Are you gaining on that? So there’s basically a lower cost of total allocable overhead per employee. The number that everybody shoots at, is that improving?

Kari Smith [00:07:17]:
Yes, we actually are seeing that improve with better alignment on policies, as you had mentioned before, with understanding what is that right balance for different team days, or what is like. For example, I know of one client that’s like, Wednesdays is the day everyone’s in. But they also know there might not be a workstation or an office for everyone, but there is a space for everyone.

Frank Cottle [00:07:40 ]:
What would that space be? Is defined. You have 10,000 office with 100 workstations in it. If you’ve got 120 people there, what do they do? They line up along the wall?

Kari Smith [00:07:57 ]:
No, there’s been a lovely shift to help support hybrid work is really leaning into human led design. So it’s really thinking about designing the space around the human’s activities or needs or how they complete their work. Because we all are very different. And instead of just looking at status or team needs, it’s looking at the individual and thinking about what are the variety of different spaces that an organization should have on each floor, which goes to a variety of beyond the workstation, offices, and meeting rooms, which is your traditional programming. I’ve got a current client that I love their variety of spaces. They have a lot of individual spaces beyond the workstation, which is focus rooms. So everyone, regardless of their status, has the ability to have privacy on demand with just light technology. So if they need to just do some quick heads down work while in the office, because that does happen. They have a space they can go to that they can. It is actually non reservable. They shut the door and they can use it to get, like, to crunch on a PowerPoint or something like that.

Frank Cottle [00:09:08]:
And I’m not challenging. Yeah, I am challenging this a little.

Kari Smith [00:09:11 ]:
Sure.

Frank Cottle [00:09:13 ]:
Sounds to me like Mondays and Fridays are kind of boring around the office. Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays are. You’re looking for a desk, and there may not be one, so you have to hustle. That doesn’t sound like we’re gaining an efficiency and use, and I want to put you on the spot with that, but. But if you just look at the dynamics of that. Seems like that could easily be an outcome. That’s if everybody’s in on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Now, if some teams are in Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and some teams are in Wednesday, then it mitigates itself. So how are you seeing that three days sort itself out?

Kari Smith [00:09:55]:
You are seeing a lot of teams having that flexibility and not just having at the core Tuesday through Thursday to allow that need for. So for example, like Mondays and Fridays, we all know it’s their use less. But if teams need to come in and use those high demand spaces they might feel comfortable with those might be the ones that they have focused team activities or things like that, that they come in for. But I also challenge you a little because everyone assumes everyone comes in and they really just want a workstation and a band or an office.

Frank Cottle [00:10:31 ]:
I agree with you. They don’t.

Kari Smith [00:10:33 ]:
They don’t.

Frank Cottle [00:10:35]:
Kia, I was just going to say, in the flexible workplace sector, you used to build a single business center or co working center, let’s say a full floor on an average building, 15 18,000ft. You used to build two moderate sized meeting rooms and one small working meeting room. So three, we’ll just say three meeting rooms today. If you were designed that space, you’d build five or six. Collaborative space is key, and it’s not team workspace so much as meeting workspace. And people are working in collaborative space, not just meeting in it.

Kari Smith [00:11:17]:
Yes, and there’s also having that huge variety of space that focuses around the activity because I. I’m neurodivergent, so I think and work differently. So, Frank, I might have a favorite spot that you might think is horrible. It definitely helps if we look at that humid led design approach, you’ll have a good mix and ratio to support a variety of different needs. So for like myself, it depends on what I’m doing and how I’m feeling. And then I would choose the best space to support me at that hour during half of the day. But giving people that choice and flexibility to move around, that’s when you find the really lovely balance of utilization, because it’s the ebb and flow and not always just going to a workstation or an office, and you’re seeing a lot of that more accepted. And then people really like when I was at a day one, two weeks ago with a client, literally on the first day they moved in, they were working and meeting in the commons area, the coffee area, and then even some in the classic library because they just needed to get away from other humans. They were adapting it already. And it was really exciting to see that people really crave that type of variety. It just takes them a little bit of time to adjust. And we’re definitely seeing those spaces being used way more than they did ten years ago. And there’s a quicker adoption rate on that, which is really exciting.

Frank Cottle [00:12:47 ]:
Well, no, that is exciting. Space is fixed. You say, I have a full floor in a building, I have 20,000ft and I’ve got 20,000ft, I’ve got 200 people I have to accommodate if I’m going to max it out, or maybe 250 if we’re using on a flex basis. When you design that space for this human based work process, I know we used to use a simple formula or two that says x people equals Y, workstations equals z, square footage and conference room. We had different formulas that we all used. What kind of shift or what kind of formula are you using in this new free floating model? So that when space is created because it’s expensive to change. You’re talking about two types of change management. Oh, we’re going to get everybody to change the way they work and we’re going to create new space. Oh, we goofed on the space. Now we have to get them to change the way they work again. It doubles down in the complexity if you don’t get it right. So what kind of formula are you using and how future proof is it? If you’d used whatever formula in 2018 built new space, in all likelihood you’d be rebuilding that space today.

Kari Smith [00:14:13 ]:
I would agree.

Frank Cottle [00:14:14 ]:
Rebuilding your space every five years is very expensive for everyone. It’s disruptive to work. It’s expensive to both the occupier as well as the property company. How do you create that value in a formula?

Kari Smith [00:14:31 ]:
Yes. So the formula, you are correct, has definitely shifted to those very basic criteria. So one thing that I have been using more and more, as we’ve been leading more, that hybrid and human based design is really thinking about what we all know. Integrated technology is critical, and making sure spaces have some sort of technology, even if it’s just to do our work, because everything is so literally, our laptops are attached to us, unfortunately or fortunately. So we always need some type of monitor, some type of spaces that have video capability or not, that is critical. And also making sure there’s a variety of posture for folks. Some people want to be able to stand or some want to sit. But I think the other biggest shift is really thinking about the more the individual needs that they can choose to, and also the regional shifts. I did some extensive research a few years ago with a new grad, just understanding how different regions would shift on their different needs. For example, different states definitely adopted hybrid work versus others, and that I found so fascinating. For example, Texas definitely was a little bit less of adoption of hybrid work because a lot of folks came back right away and they didn’t have as much of that need versus potentially some here. I’m based in Minnesota. There was a lot of hybrid shifts happening in the Minneapolis St. Paul area. So we definitely saw some of the regional shifts that I’m definitely making that more aware. Especially if you create a global workplace strategy ratio program, you need to think about those shifts beyond in that regional level and then also the team. So, for example, you can’t just have one program that is one size fits all because we all know HR works so differently than it, or marketing or.

Frank Cottle [00:16:40 ]:
Sales because it doesn’t work at all, by the way.

Kari Smith [00:16:43 ]:
Exactly.

Frank Cottle [00:16:44]:
I think you’re right that the variety of challenges there based on different teams is certainly there. But is there a formula that is simple enough that a company can say we’re within 90% because they have to go out and get that space or ex people and they want to not over buy or under buy too much or they lose that efficiency? Is that formula drifting around out there in a simple way, or does it require an intensive doctoral study in order to figure it out? Because that’s, again, massively time consuming. If you get it wrong, doing it a second time is even more challenging.

Kari Smith [00:17:38 ]:
There is definitely a starting line for that formula, but because every organization and every team and every person is different and we’re really wanting to do it right, taking the time to do extensive deep dives and workplace strategy with interviews and detailed programming and surveys and things like that can really help. Taking those small adjustments in those ratios to understand what those unique regional or team needs are that you can dial it down and really get to that close, like 90% to 95% accuracy to be able to make those good decisions for the real estate because we’ve been able to have that really good bench line or benchmark, excuse me, for creating that workplace strategy with the programming ratios and then doing those simple things just to dial it in, really can help understand what is that right ratios for those different teams and then designing in a way that can. You can definitely do some minor tweaks that doesn’t blow the budget and also having some flexible furniture that can be able to adjust as people adjust as well?

Frank Cottle [00:18:50 ]:
Well, you know, I get that our solution has been kind of odd. Not odd, maybe a little bit different. We come from the flexible workspace industry, as most people know, business centers, co working centers, et cetera. The 45 years of living in that world and in our own, one of our corporate offices, both of our corporate offices, actually, our larger offices, one has around 50 people in it, the other got about 100 people in it. We opted to not take permanent space, even though there’s 100 people there, to take a significant amount of space, a full floor, in one case, of a multi floor business center, sure. And that gives us what we say, 30, 60, 90 day flux. We need to add people. We expand like an accordion. We need to. We’re moving people to another office. We can contract like that accordion on an ongoing basis, and we pay a little premium for the space itself, but for the flexibility and the movement, it’s proven to be a very, very cost effective and simple approach for what is most people would think is large, permanent space. We’ve been in one facility for. For 14 years, a big long term lease, full floor lease, all that sort of thing. But a lot of flexibility there design wise, that we can shift things around. So we found that to be a good solution. And I think, too, we created a philosophy that you may or may not agree with. Back in 19 or 2015 or 16, we made a statement that there is no such thing as an occupier anymore, period. Yeah, everybody is a traveler. We are all only travelers. And I’m working out of my home office today. Later today, I’ll be working out of an airport, then I’ll be working out of a hotel, and tomorrow I’ll be working at a remote office. Okay? So that is the ultimate traveler. But we all have two, three, or four places that we work from. They could be local or they could be long distance. So every one of us is a traveler. Every one of us is a digital nomad or nomad local nomad of some sort. And we have to look at that. That, to me, is the starting point for the solution structure, as opposed to space, is recognizing that we are all travelers and not occupiers anymore. And you made the comment about laptops stuck on our laps. This is embarrassing. I started with punch cards and mainframes, went to minicomputers, went to desktops, and the first luggable that compact had was the size of a suitcase. Have migrated to laptops, and I’m now going to wearables. And I expect that with AI doing what it’s doing, that before my career is over, I’ll be using an implant of some sort. I have no idea what. But there’s your technology applied. And when you do that, how does that change the way people. How does that change human design space? How does that change requirements for space, that migration with technology? And when you have someone famous, Frank, two part or three part question? Sorry. When you have someone that is a traveler using their laptop, well, let’s say they’re in a marketing department. They do design. Laptop processor is okay, but they need big screens and other tools, etcetera. How does that person work as a hybrid person when they come into the office? Does the workstation have those tools? Do they have a replicated set of those tools at home or at other places in their hybridization lifecycle? If so, that’s another layer of cost that’s very expensive to not acquire and maintain. But for the IT department to manage, especially IT departments right now are struggling with security. Not connectivity so much, but security as a result of the ease of and variety of connectivity that we’ve got. Any thoughts on that? Or just want to say no, Frank, shut up. Either way. But these are things. I actually worry about these things.

Kari Smith [00:24:01 ]:
No, it’s a great point because we all have technology that we need to do our jobs for sure. And I think the unique challenge it is definitely facing is that when folks come in, the travelers to do their hybrid work, different or different teams may actually use different technology. I know a lot of marketing or design tend to be Mac preferred versus your normal Microsoft or HP or what have you.

Frank Cottle [00:24:33 ]:
And Bill Gates loves you, by the way.

Kari Smith [00:24:37 ]:
I use both. So I. But that is a true need is we people have different types of devices. We need to be able to have the ability to. We all want bigger and better monitors. That’s never going to go away. And we also need the ability to still have a camera as well. So I’m seeing the integration of bigger monitors with cameras, which I think is amazing because that was not something I saw in some clients just a few years ago.

Frank Cottle [00:25:06 ]:
That’s my first full video set in 1982. So it’s been around for a long time. It’s just been very expensive to do in the early days.

Kari Smith [00:25:15 ]:
Not at. I’ve not seen it at workstations as a norm for quite a bit. So that’s been a lovely shift because you need to be able to have the easy plug and play that can support a variety of different technology. And it has to be, like I said, it has to be easy because if it’s frustrating for anyone to come in they’re not going to come in.

Frank Cottle [00:25:35 ]:
Correct, correct.

Kari Smith [00:25:36 ]:
So it has to be seamless, it has to work instantly. And we can’t have spaces that people have that preference of like, ooh, that’s the upgraded station. I want to go there. We need to have a very balanced, if possible, so folks can find the space they prefer for their tech, but we just want to have it provided for most. Obviously there’s some times you don’t want to have a big monitor, but having that variety is key. But having equality with tech and easability I think is critical.

Frank Cottle [00:26:11 ]:
Yeah, no, I agree. It’s funny. We used to have in our laptops, everybody had a 15 or 17 inch screen years ago and then everybody went lighter weight, cooler for travel, lighter weight, faster because we were connecting the laptops to monitors.

Kari Smith [00:26:28 ]:
Yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:26:28 ]:
And we thought, oh, I got a 30 inch monitor, it doesn’t matter what size laptop, I just need to keep them. Now that we’re moving around with our laptops again, I believe this is just my guess, marketing guru for the tech industry, that a larger laptop, so I’ll say 17 inch monitors are going to come right back because we’re going to be working more on the laptop then as we move around than just the monitor itself. It’s not going to be as much plug and play as whatever I’m carrying becomes my workstation. So I think we may see that. I won’t ask about how do you manage in the workstation environment, things like we’re doing right now? Because you’d have to move to, if you were in an office, to a private place in order to not disturb your colleagues and all that. That’s all pretty accepted, you know that. We all know that we have to move to privacy sections if we’re going to have things. I do think that what we’re carrying on today, you know, you and I are 2000, 2500 miles apart, never met. And yet before the podcast we were talking about our dogs. Yes. And our love for our pets and things of that nature. We can become very good friends and real friends and real do real work by video now, overall, and before it was deemed awkward, but I think our comfort level is increasing and my dog just walked in, so I’ve got to pat him on the head or he’ll jump on my desk. Our comfort level and our being real, being genuine, authentic, as you said earlier, is very easy for us now. Yeah. And that brings the technology much further than the technology itself.

Kari Smith [00:28:31 ]:
I agree. And that also in the foreseeable future of work, I find incredibly helpful and optimistic is just think of the folks that are coming into that, like the new grads and interns that are just coming into the work environment. I had the pleasure of working with four of them the last three years and the amount of information that I learned from them. It’s been so powerful because like you said, the ability to connect virtually and be authentic is two key things I’m seeing with that generation is they value it so much and it’s second nature to just be on camera.

Frank Cottle [00:29:14 ]:
I think it’s first nature. I think that if you, you deal with Gen Z and we’re not really dealing with alpha yet in business, but we’re preparing for that.

Kari Smith [00:29:25 ]:
Yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:29:27 ]:
The reach for technology almost is. It is absolutely first nature.

Kari Smith [00:29:36 ]:
Yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:29:37 ]:
And it’s not really seen as technology. No, not really seen as something different that you have to do or learn or use or exploit. It’s just a part of your nature overall. And I think that’s good. I’m not sure because there’s an isolationism also that comes with it. Social way.

Kari Smith [00:30:01 ]:
True.

Frank Cottle [00:30:02 ]:
Where if you don’t call your friend or visit with your friend, you text your friend or you screen with your friend. And that can, that’s a whole different dynamic relationship that I think we need a bridge there somewhere personally. But then, you know, I started with mainframes, that sort of thing. So I have. It’s the, for my generation, certainly it’s not native.

Kari Smith [00:30:36 ]:
Yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:30:37 ]:
But when you talk about looking towards the future, about looking towards you put it. Put your crystal ball out there for a second. Take some risk here and everything. How do you think and what do you think we’re going to learn from these emerging generations? Let’s focus on Gen Z because they are the first hybrid generation of worker where hybrid is almost native. Just like technology as a thought process. Where do you see the workplace going or do you see even the workplace existing? We’ve always said people, place and technology create the foundation. But is place going to matter?

Kari Smith [00:31:25]:
I do think place has its place. I do truly believe the office isn’t going to die. It’s not going to be extinct. And we are seeing it gradually morph to be that place of connection because we are humans and connection is so critical. And I mean, I’ve been working remote for quite a while now, but I also really do miss that human connection. And a few weeks ago I was able to meet most of my team as we were launching a day one experience and the ability. I’ve again been talking to these folks for over six months. But having that moment in person and be like, oh my gosh, Frank, you’re real. It’s so wonderful to see you in person. It energizes you for months. I bet you are.

Frank Cottle [00:32:16 ]:
I am purely an avatar, but just.

Kari Smith [00:32:19 ]:
Having that human connection, we need that. So I don’t think it’s going to go away. It just, organizations are going to figure out what that path is. And the Gen Z right now, they’re coming in. They’ve lived, like you said, in a hybrid way. They’ve gone through school or university virtually through the pandemic, and they’re going to be our leaders in 2050 or what have you. And so just think of them leading with the mindset of that. Technology is truly just part of their being, and AI is just going to be a part of their life. They’re building it now. They’re designing it for us. So just think of what that’s going to be. I don’t know, but it’s really quite exciting that I know there will be an office. It’s going to be just very, very submersed with tech, and it might. And folks are going to have the ability to have inclusivity is the other thing I’ve seen with all four of these incredible humans that I’ve connected with over the last three years is each of them has taught me and brought something unique of themselves. That, and that curiosity of just to question. They’re not just accepting, they’re also questioning, why are we doing it this way? So thinking as leaders in the future, things are going to continuously evolve because they are questioning and really value bringing your true self to work. So that to me is really, really exciting to see what they will lead.

Frank Cottle [00:33:52 ]:
In the future when you have a generational shift like Gen Z, and we say they will be the leaders in the future, well, everybody’s going to be Gen Z in the future. If you, you went out to 2050, I think I’m looking at 2030 for that same pivot point, if you will, in leadership, I think we’re looking at 2030. And the leadership there is going to have to be multi generational.

Kari Smith [00:34:25]:
Yes.

Frank Cottle [00:34:25 ]:
How will Gen Z, who has this native technology environment, this, who is native to hybrid work, their education, as you pointed out, rightly started that, etcetera, how are they going to deal with the last tail end of the boomers? I can see how they’ll, they’ll work with amongst themselves. I can see reach up to technologically progressive millennials. I can see how they will reach down to Alpha that won’t even be an issue in my, in my opinion. There might be some, some values, challenges back and forth overall, but do you see them reaching up towards the tail end of the boomers or do you see that as they say, they’re out of here, the boomers through AI saying tech, who cares? I’ve got this other stuff and I’ve learned to use it and it’s, it’s better than your computer. How do you see all that working out for me?

Kari Smith [00:35:29 ]:
I see they, again, this is just the lens of, I’ve had that incredible example of these three, or, excuse me, for interns that I’ve worked with is they do value learning and that curiosity of that foundation. So I do feel they’re going to take the time and I’ve seen it, to learn from a variety of different generations on what is like, how do things get done to help them, but they’re also using that to then think how I can improve that or integrate that with, you know, with technology or AI or what have you. So to be able to improve with integrating that technology, they need to know that history and that background. So that connection, I think will happen if certain individuals, I think sometimes as folks get older, we tend to have more of a closed mindset versus a growth mindset. As long as people have that open mindset and wanting and willingness to share ideas and have that knowledge transfer, that’s when that’s going to be really fascinating to see how that transfers down and then they take it as that. Especially with AI blowing up right now. That’s very exciting.

Frank Cottle [00:36:45 ]:
I agree with that. I think there’ll be some, some good take up. I’m going to go back to basics, though, and kind of when I went to college, I come from rural farming and ranching, food production. Family originally from Texas and moved to California. So, you know, the farmers kind of have a way of putting things that are simple.

Kari Smith [00:37:10]:
Yep.

Frank Cottle [00:37:11 ]:
And talking to my dad when I went off to college, you know, he said, you know, Frank, the only thing you need to learn in college is how to make decisions. That was it. And then after a couple years, I got kicked out of my first college. I came back, had to explain that to him and he said, well, what’d you learn? Because I was asked to leave this college. It was the sixties. You know, what can I say? You know, I was, I was like a hippie freak. And, you know, he asked me, you know, what you learned? And I said, well, decisions have consequences. And he said, well, remember it? And he walked away. Yeah, so I think as we talk about technology and we talk about the integration of AI and we talk of all these things, when it really comes down to life, it comes down to your capacity to make decisions. Let the good ones run and cut the bad ones short. And if you can do that, regardless of what generation you are, regardless of work format you’re in, you’re probably going to be okay.

Kari Smith [00:38:28 ]:
Agreed.

Frank Cottle [00:38:30 ]:
So, you know, as exciting as all this change is and all the adjustments we’re making and all that, you know, from an old guy’s point of view, maybe applying wisdom instead of technology, it really comes down to whatever you’re doing. If you can learn to make decisions and learn to cut your bad ones short because you’ll make bad ones and you let your good ones run long, everything will be okay. I think we can get things very simple and not overly complicate all this work transformation and all these things we’re doing. It’s just stuff. But ultimately it comes down to your decision making.

Kari Smith [00:39:18 ]:
Yep.

Frank Cottle [00:39:21 ]:
I want to thank you very much, Kari, very much for your insights for JLL and the tremendous work that you guys do. I’ve worked with JLL forever on a number of projects and absolutely have the total respect and really thank you for your insights and look forward to maybe working on some articles or some things of that nature. We can really distill some of this down and add that to what you’re doing with all work.

Kari Smith [00:39:53 ]:
That would be amazing. Frank, I really appreciate this opportunity and your time today on talking about the future of work.

Frank Cottle [00:40:01 ]:
Perfect. Thank you.

Kari Smith [00:40:03 ]:
Thank you.