Exploring The Explosive Growth of Coworking And What Lies Ahead with Will Sandford

Frank Cottle [00:01:01]:
Will, welcome to the Future Work podcast. It’s really great to have you on here and great to see on Zoom after meeting you in Phoenix a couple weeks ago.

Will Sandford [00:01:09 ]:
Yeah, thanks, Frank. It’s nice to. Well, it’s nice to have met you. It’s not as nice to be back in Zoom land. It’d be better to be doing it in person, but I’m glad we can connect.

Frank Cottle [00:01:17 ]:
No, no, it’s great. Say, you know, you have such a tremendous background, the combination of WeWork, Yardi envoy, so many important elements that relate to the future of work. You’re working for Yardi now and a very important role. Tell us. Yardi supported the commercial real estate industry for decades, decades and decades. I think I first ran into Yardi in 86 when I was in the property business. So forever you guys have been around. How do you see, or how does Yardi see the opportunity in co working today, a flexible office in today’s market? And how does that relate to the future of work, in your view?

Will Sandford [00:02:04 ]:
Yeah, yeah, good question. And like you said, Yachty has been in the commercial real estate segment supporting operators across all types of real estate for a long time. And I think what brought them to their investment in co working today is the story of adjacencies. There’s been decades long of working with a customer, understanding their needs and then understanding the adjacent opportunities to that. And I think co working for Yardi and one of the reasons that I jumped on board here to help accelerate what they’re doing in the co working and flex space is the story of coworking’s adjacency to office, who is Yardi’s core customer. You know, we all know that office has been struggling and that, you know, co working and flexible office has been bubbling up as this nascent segment within it for a long time. But, you know, we’ve been invested in this space since, I’d say meaningfully since 2017 as an adjacency to what we heard from our commercial customers, you know, the large institutional investors, operators.

Frank Cottle [00:03:08 ]:
By invested, you mean through Yardi Kube as opposed to directly with WeWork, correct?

Will Sandford [00:03:14 ]:
Correct. Yes. In 2017, we bought one systems, which was rebuilt and now branded as Yardi Kube, which is our space management co working operations system. So yes, we’ve been invested in that. We have a product in the market, but that investment was very much driven by the co working segment’s growth as an adjacency to what we heard from our commercial investment management and owner operator customers on the traditional office side.

Frank Cottle [00:03:42]:
You know, it’s funny, since probably about 2015, we’ve been saying that there are no such thing as an occupier anymore, that there are only travelers. I think it’s a fair way, and I think that your adjacency issue, as we look at the changes in the way people are working, whether they were forced by the pandemic or just the battle for talent, caused all sorts of changes going on. Certainly in the tech industry, we see these things going on, and Yardi must have had a tremendous amount of, even without Kube, but with Kube, especially on the flex side, tremendous amount of data that helped them to make this decision. What were you seeing in that data?

Will Sandford [00:04:30 ]:
Yeah, it’s a good point. We have notoriously always been quiet on aggregating and anonymizing data and putting it out into the market, but it does sit there. I would say it’s a combination of watching the traditional indicators that everyone else read, dropping occupancy, less utilization, particularly with the growth of, you know, I’d say, like more Internet of things tools, between Wi Fi occupancy sensors, etcetera, watching those indicators leading into everything shutting down in the pandemic was a leading indicator that it wasn’t going to come back in the way it was.

Frank Cottle [00:05:12 ]:
Exactly.

Will Sandford [00:05:13 ]:
So we think that the writing was on the wall there. I mean, I think this has been well played out across. A lot of people have talked this, maybe today, over the last four or five years, but I. The leading indicators were there, and I’d say like, they were the data indicators that led us to do that. And the other, I guess, confirmation that we needed was the anecdotal evidence from operators once they started talking more and more with their travelers in their buildings, when they tried to convince them to come back, because we obviously work very closely with them, but they talk an infinite amount more with their occupiers, travelers, and understanding that the way that they focus and the way that they talk about how they use space has fundamentally changed, started to validate those data points that existed before everyone went home.

Frank Cottle [00:06:04 ]:
I think we’ve seen an exponential growth. You mentioned the flex sector as a nascent industry, and I think you’re right. But boy, all capital letters these days. The growth of that industry within itself, not comparing it to all commercial space overall, has been in the ten to 1215 percent year over year since about 2013 or 2014. I’m going to guess not guess. I’ll make that statement. Faster than the adaptation of the PC in the nineties, faster than adaptation of the smartphones in the early two thousands. And it’s been year over year for a decade now. So it may be a nascent industry in education of the public, but it is growing phenomenally right now. And how do you see that as relating to the total market size today? And let’s call it two to 3% of all office space. This is where you all think it will be going?

Will Sandford [00:07:17 ]:
Yeah, it’s a great question and one that everyone seems to have wildly different answers on. Right. You know, I saw that there was the, I believe was the KPMG CEO survey saying that 80% of CEO’s believe that everyone’s going to be fully back in office. And on the other hand, you have an Avison young survey of occupiers, travelers that says that 30% off a stock is going to be flex. So you still have this dichotomy of opinion in the market, but the only thing that doesn’t lie is the data about how space is being used. So you’re absolutely right. We’re seeing strong year on year growth numbers of the growth of flexible office product across a variety of forms in the market. As of today, we have a really strong data team that’s tracking the inventory in the market on a daily basis and we produce that out to the market monthly. Today we’re tracking around 7100 us co working and flex office facilities that make up around 127.5 million every month. That we update that there are more.

Frank Cottle [00:08:27 ]:
And more of them and we track about 8500. Okay, so I completely agree. We can talk back and forth that it’s close enough.

Will Sandford [00:08:40 ]:
Yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:08:41 ]:
And I can remember, boy, I’m dating myself now. I can remember when it was less than 500. So, you know, it really has grown. And I think what’s grown along with it, you know, we talk about dots on the map and I were just talking about, those are the dots on the map. But I. The dots on the size of the dots on the map is materially different too. We go back 10, 15, 20 years, your average size was 1415, maybe 14 to 18,000ft day. The dots on the map average size is in the 24 to 30,000ft with a lot of dots in the 50 to 100,000 foot range. It’s not just the dots that have grown exponentially, but the size of the dots, which equals customer service capacity, which means the revenue of the industry.

Will Sandford [00:09:40 ]:
Yep.

Frank Cottle [00:09:41 ]:
That’s where it’s hugely generative, I think, that we’re seeing.

Will Sandford [00:09:47 ]:
Yeah. And I think that growth of the size of the dot is indicative of like the broader both adoption and shifting customer profile of the person who’s coming in to call it flex. Flex covers all manner of spaces, from on demand co working spaces to open co working, to spec suites to whatever it needs to be called by that operator. But that growth of the dots speaks to a really important trend, which I think is the growth of enterprise in this space. If you’re going to have bigger facilities, you need bigger members to take that down on a longer term basis to prove out your pro forma. And I think we’re now seeing that people like the industrious weworks of the world that hold high caliber, high credit enterprise relationships were some of the first movers to show that they could hold and maintain a long term, multi location enterprise relationship that formed a meaningful part of their real estate strategy. I heard an interesting term from some of my friends who work directly on the flex occupier side, that they don’t sell real estate, they sell portfolio insurance. And as that has grown for enterprise occupiers, we’ve seen the size of those dots become more feasible the larger they get. I think you probably agree that back in 20 1415 if someone opened an 80,000 square foot coworking facility, you’d be scratching your head as to how you’re going to make that pencil.

Frank Cottle [00:11:24 ]:
Well, this is embarrassing to say considering what you just mentioned, but between 80 and 90 I built 42 facilities between 35 and 50,000ft. So I was crazy as a loon back then, I guess.

Will Sandford [00:11:39 ]:
And how much of that was enterprise then?

Frank Cottle [00:11:43 ]:
10% maybe? Maybe. And I’ll tell you where the enterprise came from. It was for outplacement from companies that were going through a variety, from the HR departments took a lot of outplacement space when they were doing layoffs. During that era. The aerospace industry went through a big, big shakeup for many years, and a lot of the enterprise business started off that way because there was no real tech industry then. If I were to name the big tech companies of the early eighties, none of them exist today, or few, but like IBM, of course. But it’s just so different. And I think the first big centers that were built consistently were built by Regis in the.com era. And the driver again was the.com tech driver. It was a true demand for big team spaces. And when the.com bombed that all that space got re scrambled a lot of that space. And now it seems to be happening organically. There’s no single driver. Aside from common sense overall, there was an interesting. I don’t know if you remember Sprint, the telephone company, sprint in the early nineties? I’m trying to pull my memory back here. In the early nineties, had about 185 facilities just for themselves, all flex telecommuting centers. And they were pretty big, but we’ll call them 20,000 foot average just for themselves. And they were at that time the largest single operator in the proverbial industry, and it was 100% enterprise. They learned then how well it worked. Unfortunately, their telecom didn’t work, and so they are no longer really wizzes in the same way, and they’ve kind of migrated. But how do you see, what do you think the biggest challenge facing the flect office segment is today? And how do you think the market participants, the property companies, the service companies like Yardi Kube, the operators, and most importantly, the customer, how do you think they can solve whatever challenges you might bring up?

Will Sandford [00:14:15 ]:
Yeah, and that’s a very broad and meaningful question, but I think it comes down to, like, two beliefs that we have around the flex segment, and they are that there should be flex everywhere, meaning that whatever that meeting of, you know, geographic and socioeconomic drivers are that are forcing people to use, you know, more flexible office setups, they should be everywhere. Right. You know, we’ve seen the growth of, like, suburban co working. We’ve seen them, you know, near power centers. We’ve seen the growth of retail co working, etcetera. So, you know, there needs to be a form of flex everywhere, and the fit out of that and the size of that needs to represent the service that it is delivering to that customer in that market. So that’s the meeting of the geographic and, you know, socioeconomic drivers. So one is flex everywhere and the second is flex anywhere. And that’s really an access problem. So, like, if there is options in all of these markets, is there the ability for the right consumer to access that inventory without knowing about it first? So, yeah, between these two things that we believe in, like, one in it is going to be ubiquitous and everywhere, serving a different purpose in each place, and the other that everyone should have access to all of it. You start to see that there’s a marketplace problem. So to answer your question directly, like, what is the biggest challenge for the market right now? We talked up front about growth. It is organically growing. There are more operators and investors coming into the market, albeit not as fast as we would like, but they’re entering the market. So we don’t have a growth problem, but we need to see it in the right areas to service all types of customers with the right type of inventory and then we need those consumers to be able to access it. So the biggest challenge is the efficiency of the marketplace.

Frank Cottle [00:16:13 ]:
I agree with that. Efficiency of all marketplaces is built around communications in some ways and getting the proverbial word out. And if I were an operator today and I were to get into an elevator with somebody and they were to say to me, oh gosh, Frank, nice to meet you, what business are you in? And I said, well, I’m in the flex workspace business. Most of them wouldn’t understand what I was talking about.

Will Sandford [00:16:47 ]:
Yep.

Frank Cottle [00:16:48 ]:
And if I said I was in co working, someone go, I’ve heard of that, but they don’t know what it is. And I think that the biggest challenge that we’ve always had as an industry, and I think we’re starting to get on the edge of getting over it. People like Yardi and IWG, industrious that you mentioned convene. Hopefully alliance are getting the word out about the industry and the economics are becoming strategic to companies, not just occasionally tactical. And the industry applies, as you’ve well pointed out, not just to smaller entrepreneurial companies or legal accounting professionals. The solopreneur marketplace of the old days, but is now gone global and enterprise. And when major enterprises are saying, oh, 10% of our people, 20% of our people, 100% of our people are going to be out of the office working at a third workplace or a second workplace one, two or three days a week. That is a paradigm shift unlike anything real estate has ever seen. There’s never been as big a shift as we’re potentially faced with. And we’re talking about the complete repurposing not just of buildings in many ways, but of cities and commuting systems and things of that nature as a result of all this. Where do you see that going?

Will Sandford [00:18:27 ]:
I completely agree with you. I think it comes back to this concept of flex will be everywhere but in a different form. You know well that there is a use case for each type of building, each type of location and each type of company, and threading the needle of those things to make sure that you deliver the inventory to meet those three needs in the right space. And time is critical. Right? You know, the near home movement defines one kind of space. The, you know, the corporate outsourcing trend defines a different type of space, you know, and then, you know, growth space within kind of large corporate assets could be a third. And the list goes on and on for the different types of what could be considered coworking or flex. And they will all look and feel very different, but all of them are on the rise as they’re, as there’s more broad adoption from this enterprise customer. And I think it comes back to, it’s a flywheel effect, as any marketplace is. Someone might be thinking, there is a large manufacturing company down the road from me in a tertiary market, and I want to open a flexible working facility because they have off sites and they have remote teams coming in, have, you know, they dominate the residential market in the area and they might not want to go to their office each day, but, you know, we need more success and access points to those, that kind of inventory to motivate more operators to come into the market. So this kind of like flywheel effect between, you know, flex everywhere in the operators opening more of the right kinds of locations, and flex everywhere with all the users being able to access it is that flywheel that we need to start. And the challenge there is, enterprise is notoriously picky with how they access real estate, which is how flex is being deemed. So finding the right access points for that enterprise customer so that they can meaningfully engage in a way that they want to, when they want to, in our market, I think, is going to be one of the biggest accelerators to the growth of our total market.

Frank Cottle [00:20:40 ]:
Well, you know, it’s funny, you say enterprises are terribly picky. I’ve known many enterprises looking for large space and they come into a city, and they won’t move into the city unless they can get a landmark building with their name on it. They basically felt in the past they had to build a cathedral to themselves almost. And I don’t know that that did much for their shareholders. Candidly, where flex is going to be radically different to their shareholders in terms of driving benefit, if you look at a typical large enterprise company and say, well, we’re going to reduce our in office utilization or requirement by one day a week, that’s 20% reduction in space. Take a 20% reduction in the leasehold debt off the balance sheet of any global Fortune 1000 company relative, you know, and give them that money back in the form of commercial debt to grow the company, and you’ll have an explosion. It’s a massive amount of monies that can be created by this new process overall. And I just read an article yesterday regarding office space that was in Manhattan, and for new permits, new permitting processes, that more than 50% of the new permitting processes were for the conversion from commercial to residential space, which means New York is starting to repurpose itself as a city overall and how far that will go, it doesn’t matter, but the effects are that large as we see it, it just can be staggering. I think if I can make one.

Will Sandford [00:22:37 ]:
Comment on that, I mean, I agree with you. There is a huge opportunity for companies to reduce real estate spend and either move that into flexible benefit programs or return it to employees as part of just balance sheet.

Frank Cottle [00:22:52 ]:
It doesn’t even have to be spent.

Will Sandford [00:22:54]:
Correct? Correct. But I think if you, if companies are thinking about, you know, their biggest focus at the end of, yes, it’s balance sheet, but when it comes to their people, it’s productivity and employee np’s. So they have to give something back because up until a little while ago, it was a very competitive market for talent and we’ll be there again at some stage. But I think there’s a little bit of a double standard when it comes to how companies think about real estate spend. I’m sure for many customers over the year, if you’d gone and asked them how much are you spending on your half a million square foot headquarters, how well utilized is that? Do people come in every day of the week? What’s your occupancy of your meeting rooms? They would give you probably a dismal number that would speak to a significant overspend in real estate, asking them to spend a portion of that on access or real estate benefit programs that get, let people go where they want, you know, they will start to get very tight fisted about reduce, you know, redistributing those dollars back into the ecosystem.

Frank Cottle [00:24:02 ]:
Well, they think everybody can work from their house and they can’t. Yes, they can’t. And there is a respond there, that’s for sure. But I think that, and this is a juggling pattern where companies will juggle around until they find the right formula for their individual organization. But overall, it’s my belief at least that we’re going to see a reduction in conventional space and corresponding increase of balance, if you will, in highly flexible space. And because flex space is generally provided on a one year or less service agreement as opposed to a lease, well, it doesn’t ever hit the balance sheet, even if it rolls year over year over year. And if there is that new battle for talent, which I agree with you is absolutely coming, it’s a very cyclical issue. Flex allows you to find talent anywhere and use technology. Technology doesn’t have a border, so people working in technology have less and less borders as well. And maybe you’re even talking about, you know, a complete economic shift and a restructuring of how people and where people are paid, that might balance out global economics a little bit, perhaps that would.

Will Sandford [00:25:35]:
Be a good world.

Frank Cottle [00:25:37 ]:
I mean, you never know what’s going to happen or how it’s going to happen. Right now, it’s kind of a scary world, but it has that, the capacity to go that far, I believe, and I think it will be driven. You made the comment several times, enterprise. I think enterprise is the big driver for the next wave of material wave of growth in flex versus the solopreneurs and the smaller companies that had bid drivers in the past. How do you think that’s going to shape out? Not just from the real estate use point of view, but in terms of numbers?

Will Sandford [00:26:18 ]:
Yeah. So I think they are very important for a number of reasons. One is like the obvious one, like the tam of that market is much higher, you know, through our marketplace and speaking with other kind of like co working aggregation partners in the market, the delta between the average value of a booking from a enterprise customer that is on a corporate account versus someone who comes through the website and books on their own behalf is around 40%. So that enterprise customer just spends 40% more on average booking. It’s either because they bring someone with them, they are being reimbursed to stipend for use of that space, or they’re on a corporate account so they’re not price sensitive. So just from that individual user alone, if we never get another one of them, if we can just move towards enterprise customers, there’s 40% more in the market, which generates a certain amount of growth. The second part of it is a lot of these customers I would deem like sitting behind a dam. So it’s funny you mentioned Sprint earlier, one of the first and most meaningful enterprises to move into the flex market, and I’m speaking from my days at WeWork here, was Verizon. For some reason these telecom companies, they seem stodgy and old, but they have people everywhere performing pretty routine tasks that can be done anywhere. So they were some of the first to start testing. How do we optimize our real estate spend? And they’ve been doing this for decades.

Frank Cottle [00:27:52 ]:
Well, Verizon actually built their own internal co working centers, correct? So they had a whole group focused just on that. It was inevitable that they would look towards other providers where they had couldn’t do it themselves or didn’t have the critical mass. That makes perfect sense. Yep, makes perfect sense.

Will Sandford [00:28:10 ]:
And I think they are a great example of leading the way. For if a company like Verizon can be so forward thinking, when it comes to optimizing their real estate footprint and optimizing the productivity of their workforce, why couldn’t anyone else? Because there’s a pervasive argument out there that this is for tech companies that have all the tools, etcetera. The reality is that those who recognize the value that optimizing their real estate spend by pushing a certain number of their employees and footprint into flex can give them, is probably most attractive to the lowest margin businesses. So it’s at the opposite end. And it kind of runs completely counter to this argument of like tech is the one taking up all of flex. Yes, they are first movers, and yes, they were first move is enforced. But over time, as the model is proven out economically, I expect we see many more lower margin, lesser known large enterprises moving into this space more meaningfully. And I guess the second part, to answer your question of like, what is the impact of enterprise going to be? Number one was they just spend more, 40% on average per booking for space. But secondly is there’s many more of them, and they sit behind this dam, and that dam is their current long term leases as they start to re rationalize their portfolio and give those employees who currently have a real estate spend attributed to them and release them out into the market for a more optimized spend. The size of our market being the number of users in it who we’ve agreed are spending more on space, will significantly multiply the size and value of our market. So I think it’s a combination of capturing the high value of that customer and getting more of them into it.

Frank Cottle [00:29:55 ]:
Well, you know, I agree with you on the spend side. Our data is different, but it’s positive. And the same thing. We recognize about 120% increase in spend, and it’s primarily in the difference in services overall, not in rack rate. That’s pretty much the markets to market, but in additional services that the enterprise clients actually require because they work in teams more effectively than they work as individuals. Another group that we’re seeing a lot of, I don’t know that you’d really call it enterprise, but the pandemic did a funny thing to the legal services, to the legal industry. A lot of big firms, the partners were working from home, and then they figured, this isn’t so bad. Maybe I don’t want to be part of a big firm anymore, et cetera, et cetera. So we’re seeing a major shift from large law firms reshifting the partners, the partners themselves are breaking out, going solo or smaller, and going into flex space, where before it was purely solo. In fact, the largest operator in the industry and the eighties, the late seventies and eighties was a legal services operator, the Aomi group attorney Office Management, Inc. So there’s a. It’s not just the flow is, God, it’s everywhere. It’s like a giant tide, you know, how do you think you guys have been so involved in the commercial real estate side years? The property sector itself, the large owners of buildings within which all of this is happening, a big percentage of them have to be looking at this right now and saying, I think we should be operating our own flex space. I know Sam Zell, back in the nineties and early two thousands at equity office properties, he had 58 facilities in various buildings called smart suite. And how many property companies do you see or do you all think will be saying, I’m not sure I want to rent to industrious. I think I’m going to run my own center here and make their profit, add it to my yield and cap it out, do you think?

Will Sandford [00:32:31 ]:
I mean, my short answer is most, and I think the smart ones have started to dip their toe into it cautiously, you know? For example, today I’m in a 18,000 square foot co working facility that’s owned and operated by an institutional operator that owns this 1.2 million square foot building. And walking this, prior to this conversation, the community team here mentioned that roughly one third of the tenants that long term lease upstairs in this building have taken space within the co working facility over the last couple of years for one reason or another. So I think for the institutional operators, you know, it’s two things. Like one, they want to control their relationship with their tenant for as long and for as many of those customer needs as possible. And without flex, they can’t do that. You know, they need coworking, they need conference room, they need amenity spaces, they need flex suites, they need spec suites to do that that will allow them to maintain that customer relationship. And secondly is they want to dip their toe into this because as the one who’s the most, call it capital constrained because of the economics that have been yet to be proven and digested in the commercial real estate space for co working, they need some proof points that shows that this is both accretive to the long term customer value that they have with their tenant as well as accretive to the asset value itself. And without, I think, dipping a toe into that, you know, in a operator capacity, they’re not going to be able to do that, prove it out and finance more of this and control more of that customer relationship?

Frank Cottle [00:34:12 ]:
No, it’s interesting. I think that the shift also of the financial asset managers, the financial institutions that provide a lot of funding for larger projects, their shift from class A covenants in long term leases to yield is going to drive a lot of change. I absolutely think that that’s going to be going on.

Will Sandford [00:34:42 ]:
To your point earlier, it’s very difficult to take that the value of those services that you sold your enterprise customers and get a bank to underwrite that to provide debt on the real estate cash flow.

Frank Cottle [00:34:58 ]:
Some jungle math data on that. And one of the reasons Sam Zell was dealing with this, we learned as operators through the years with multiple hundreds of centers that a third of our short term clients changed annually. There was about a three year life cycle of things. Of that third, half of them just disappeared. They went somewhere else. They didn’t succeed, half of them disappeared. The other third, however, took conventional space equal to the entire amount of space the center occupied. That one number that is the most powerful incubator if the landlord or the property company can capture it. And most people want to stay in the same building.

Will Sandford [00:35:52 ]:
Yeah, change is hard.

Frank Cottle [00:35:54 ]:
So the change today of operators of working more as partners with the property companies, management contracts, joint ventures, participating leases, as opposed to pure leasehold tenants trying to time the market. Nobody ever wins on that, neither side. I think that that shift is going to continue and the incubation factor could be very, very good for the entire commercial sector, not just the flex portion of it.

Will Sandford [00:36:28 ]:
Overall, 100%. It drives more flex availability, which brings you in contact with more customers. It allows you to see serve your existing tenants through more of their lifecycle, which at the end of the day is what anyone who’s owning and operating one of these buildings wants to do. So I think it’s a very positive trend. It’s one that will motivate much more diversity across like the type of operations that are available to call it, like flexor co working customers. Which explains the difference between my 7100 us number and your 8500 us number. I mean, the definition of what this is.

Frank Cottle [00:37:08 ]:
What it is. Yeah, definition of what it is. Very, very true. No, very true. One last question for you. What’s Yardi’s roadmap for co working?

Will Sandford [00:37:18]:
Great question. So we’ve built up, and as I mentioned earlier, we’ve had a long term view on the value that coworking is going to have as a segment, as well as the impact that it’s going to have on the office market in general. This is a long term beta, that flexible office is going to be the transformation force for office. So one part of that is our investment in operator solutions in Yardi Kube. The second is our belief that there needs to be a marketplace to facilitate access to space anywhere. And that for us is coworking cafe. And the third is the story of WeWork. We didn’t really get to that today, but you know, you know, Anat Yachty is now the majority owner of WeWork and we do have an investment in them. But the real story behind that, beyond saving what was, I think, an important brand name for all co working facilities, right. If that went down, it would not benefit the segment or anyone participating in it. But the real story behind it is that we built their technology stack, including their enterprise co working collaboration and flex based access tool called Allwork.Space. So through that we really learned what it was like to facilitate that need from the growing and high value enterprise customer. So if there can be one of a few stories that we really see in WeWork, it’s that they’ve done a really good job at courting, understanding and engaging the enterprise customer in the flex space market. And our relationship with them on that side will continue to do that, because we believe that enterprise is one of, if not the most critical component of stepping co working from where it’s at today into that 10% plus contributor or manager of space in the us market. So I’d say between those three things is really where we see our investment in it. And like all things Yadi, we are always a single solution platform and we spread out across the needs of the users in a segment. So for co working, it’s operations, technology, marketplace, access to space and the engagement of enterprise. And we’re invested in all those three areas. And I think the breadth and the depth of that investment shows that we’re definitely here for the long term. We believe in the segment and we believe in collaboration between all the participants in it and we hope to facilitate that.

Frank Cottle [00:39:53 ]:
Well, you’re definitely committed and it’s great to see, because I know, I’ve known your company for many, many decades and always appreciated the seriousness of intent on every move that the company has made through the decades. So it’s great to see you’re committed and I want to thank you very much for your time here today and sharing what you were able to share with on your own behalf, with your experience at envoy and Yardi and wework, and welcome to the industry and let’s build it together.

Will Sandford [00:40:26 ]:
Thanks Frank, appreciate the conversation.

Frank Cottle [00:40:28 ]:
Take care.