Who Leads Now? Millennials & Gen Z Are Redefining Leadership with Amanda Litman

About This Episode 

In this episode of The Future of Work® Podcast, host Daniel Lamadrid sits down with Amanda Litman, co‑founder and president of Run for Something and author of When We’re In Charge — a fresh perspective on how Millennials and Gen Z are fundamentally redefining leadership in the modern world. They explore how generational experiences have shaped new expectations of authenticity, workplace culture, power, and effectiveness. Amanda shares insights from her work helping thousands of young leaders run for local office, and connects those lessons to leading teams, organizations, and communities in today’s evolving workplace. This episode is essential listening for anyone seeking to understand how leadership is changing — from political arenas to corporate boardrooms — and what skills leaders need to thrive in 2026 and beyond. 

About Amanda Litman 

Amanda Litman is co‑founder and president of Run for Something, an organization dedicated to recruiting and supporting young, diverse leaders running for local office. Since 2017, they’ve helped launch the careers of thousands of Millennial and Gen Z candidates and transform what leadership looks like in America. Amanda is the author of When We’re In Charge: The Next Generation’s Guide to Leadership (2025) and Run for Something: A Real‑Talk Guide to Fixing the System Yourself (2017). She previously worked on presidential and statewide campaigns, holds a degree from Northwestern University, and lives in Brooklyn with her family. 

What You’ll Learn 

• How Millennials and Gen Z define leadership differently than previous generations
• Why authenticity and transparency are now fundamental workplace expectations
• How leadership lessons from political organizing apply directly to workplace leadership
• The role of modern communication (e.g., social media, Slack, digital norms) in leading teams
• Why leaders must balance empathy, accountability, and decision‑making clarity
• Strategies for building career resilience amid rapid workplace changes 

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Transcript

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:00:00,000 ]I think leading is like music or art or sports, and the way that you become one is by doing it. The way you become a musician is by making music. The way you become an athlete is by getting on the field. The way you become a leader is by taking power and executing on it. is by showing up and bringing people along with you for your vision of what is possible. You don’t have to look a certain way, sound a certain way, be a certain way to do that. What you have to do, I think, is be a little brave, be a little vulnerable, and have a sense of where you want things to go.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:00:30,030 ] Amanda, hi, how are you? Thank you so much for joining the future work podcast. How are you doing today?

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:00:35,280 ] I’m good. I’m really excited to be having this conversation.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:00:38,940 ] I am very excited as well because we’re going to be touching on something. That I think I mean, we all know right now that The world of work that we live in, I think it’s the It’s where the most amount of generations are mixing and clashing ever, right?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:01:00,850 ] Particularly I mean, this massive generational shift particularly is happening. At the hands of millennials, which this year they’ve officially become the biggest share of managers in the workplace. Right. And.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:01:18,460 ] Gen Z is soon to come.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:01:21,960 ] 2030, they’ll make up 30 to 40% of the workforce. So they’re right behind us. And I say ‘us’ because I myself am a millennial. So this will be a very interesting topic.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:01:34,820 ] And so what I want to get to is— Like I said, we’re at a point where millennials make up the majority of the workforce, particularly in managing positions.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:01:49,500 ] Did you see this shift coming when you launched Run for Something? And I want to get into what Run for Something is, but did you see this in your experience that it was coming?

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:02:01,120 ] It did. So let me explain for folks who maybe are unfamiliar. So Run for Something helps young people run for local office all across the country. I launched it back in 2017. um to help respond to the idea that we needed new leadership. We needed new people in power. and we started seeing folks really raise their hands to get involved and over the last nine years We’ve had nearly a quarter million young people raise their hands to express interest in running for office. We’ve helped elect more than 1 ,600.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:02:28,769 ] millennials and Gen Z all across the country. Bye. in particular in 2022 and 2023 i started hearing from honestly political reporters i was working with were like hey the folks you’ve helped elect are leading very differently What is going on here? Why is that the case? And I was able to point to something very specific, which is especially for millennials and Gen Z, you think about power very differently. And that’s honestly the idea where ‘When We’re in Charge’ came from, which is my new book about how millennials and Gen Z can and should and will lead very differently, not just in government, but it works in community, in your coed soccer league, and what does it mean to do that in a way that treats people well but also gets things done.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:03:12,710 ] So it’s a little different.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:03:14,190 ] Yeah, that makes total sense. And, you know, I don’t think we’ve ever talked about on the podcast how leadership relates to the political landscape.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:03:23,960 ] I imagine that, just as workplace leaders can change the workplace, political leaders can also change how the world works, right? And I think that— that understanding and management of power is in fact very different.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:03:44,060 ] What is the thing that stands out the most? We know that leaders are leading differently, and what do you think, in your experience or that you’ve seen, it stands out the most about how they lead. Than older generations.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:04:01,700 ] You know, I think part of it is the challenges that millennials and Gen Z, and I’m a millennial, so I’ll say we, but that we have— than some of the boomers and Gen Xers that came before us is. The tensions at play. So you know, an example here. We want to be authentic. Our employees want us to be authentic. Our people want us to be authentic. They want us to like bringing ourselves to work with us. But also, you know, for the book, I interviewed more than 130 millennial and Gen Z leaders across the country. And I would ask them, do you feel like you can be yourself at work? And they’re like, ‘No, absolutely not.’ I have to be careful about how I show up. I have to be intentional. I have to model a particular. Kind of behavior and tone and professionalism, but also what it means to be professional is changing. I want people to be you know full people outside of work, but also I really want to get things done because we have revenue goals or mission goals or you know campaigns to win. How do I balance that? How to do this— like they want to do it differently.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:04:59,480 ] All of that is also compounded by the fact that the workplace, as you know, and you guys have talked about on this podcast before, is so different. You know, remote work, flexible work, you know, different countries, different time zones, different communication channels, and all of it is getting conflated in the places that, you know, I’m talking to my team over Signal or WhatsApp, but that’s also where I’m talking to my grandma or my daycare director or my husband. All of these things meshing at the same place. It’s just it creates so much context shifting and emotional package that makes it so hard to lead right now.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:05:35,200 ] Yeah, I’m with you on that. And specifically between millennials, I’m curious to know, between millennials and Gen Z, is there something? In particular, that makes them stand out as different generations. I believe that both, at least in the workplace, both of them have very similar— let’s use more Gen Z language, vibes. They have different vibes, but in some way they’re similar. What do you see between those two specific generations as it relates to leading?

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:06:09,610 ] You know, I think millennials, just by nature, being a little bit further along in our careers, you know, millennials at this point are 29, 30 to early 40s. There’s a different stage, also at a different stage of life. Millennials more often are getting married. They have kids. They’re thinking about, like, what does it mean to show up fully for my family? Um, They also. I think I feel really burnt by support systems, like have personally experienced, you know, the financial crash of 2008 when you graduated college or.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:06:39,950 ] various global events over the last decade that have directly affected our ability to see a career ladder. You know, so many millennials have experienced layoffs or found like The career path. my dad or my grandparents had does not feel in the realm of possibility for me. I think it’s safe.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:06:58,940 ] Would you agree? I think we’re both millennials. We just said it. I think it’s safe to say that our generation, us, we’ve experienced the most amount of change.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:07:07,440 ] Um, It has definitely shifted really quickly.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:07:10,880 ] Because unlike Gen Z, for example, we didn’t grow up with technology, right? We dove into it. Now the younger generations, they’re like iPad children. I have nephews and it’s like iPads. Um, we grew up with the internet but it was a different type of internet. Remember, we used to connect the cable and the little sound. So I think we’ve gotten to experience a lot of change and we’ve had to adapt to it very quickly.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:07:37,310 ] Um, and many of us, our first and second jobs were in an office for most of us. Where is it? Not true if you, if you’re in Gen Z, it’s not necessarily true. I think that is a real distinguishing factor. And like, where did you learn how to show up at work and who was modeling that? How did they tell you what to do?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:07:54,990 ] Yeah, yeah. And I think that’s something.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:07:58,600 ] Because let’s face it, I mean, at least if we talk about Gen Z, they’re getting they need] a PR agent. They’re getting a very bad rep. They’re getting a very bad rep. But I will say it’s not all their fault. I mean, most of them, when they were [everything. FU—] trying to get their first entry job, it’s when the pandemic happened and they didn’t get to experience the workplace as we millennials did— right office and then you can go to remote work, they experienced the workplace per what their home was, because that’s where they were doing it. So they didn’t have a lot of advantages like we did to network and to see how to climb that corporate ladder.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:08:38,730 ] And a lot of people say they’re out of touch with what it means to be a professional, but I wonder if if it’s their fault. What do you think about that? Do you?

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:08:49,460 ] I mean, I don’t think it’s their fault. And I also think the definition of what it means to be professional has changed so quickly. I think about this in terms of dress codes and appearances, the fact that your office is now often, where am I Zooming from? Or where am I calling in from FaceTime? It is so different. And that can be both really hard to wrap your head around, but also really freeing because without your code of conduct, you sort of have to make it up as you go. I think that’s one of the challenges over the really the last five years— is that the norm of the workplace and what it means to show up at work have shifted so quickly. That the water under the feet of the boomer and Gen X leaders has sort of receded. And they feel really unstable and they don’t really know how to lead in these moments. And the millennials and Gen Z who are taking power, which is what I write about at length, are trying to do it differently, but don’t have a playbook for it. And that all combines to a place of deep instability and confusion.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:09:47,870 ] Definitely. And you mentioned power.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:09:50,339 ] Hmm.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:09:51,190 ] Who do you think, what generation do you think will actually have the power? To change the workplace once and for all? Because the way I see it, millennials, we’re in a very particular position. It’s like a tug of war, but we’re at the middle. We’re still with outdated thoughts here, but then Gen Z’s coming in with these thoughts and we don’t know where to go. Will millennials be the ones that I don’t want to say finally, but finally change the workplace as we know it, and therefore also how the world works on a political standpoint? Or will it be Gen Z that takes over?

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:10:26,610 ] I am possibly.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:10:28,920 ] Everyone and every answer is very particular. So I’m eager to know what you think about this.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:10:34,730 ] Well, I think we are right now at a tipping point. You know, we’re seeing the youngest boomers going to hit retirement age in 2030. And based on all the research I’ve seen over the last six months, a lot of these big companies are unfortunately. going from boomer CEO to millennial CEO. They’re skipping over Gen X. Now, part of that is Gen X is the smallest generation, but also. Gen Xers got screwed by boomers staying in power for so long.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:10:56,700 ] It’s the boomers’ fault. So. I do think that you’re going to see as millennials take over in bigger and bigger numbers. They are rejecting the way that things were done before and willing to experiment. Sometimes those experiments aren’t going to work. But I think that there’s a particular No, no— generation is a monolith, but there is a particular vibe of. millennial optimism, millennial cringe, which I think is actually a good thing and a whole amount of earnestness that is ultimately making for gentler workplaces. I mean, one of the reasons I knew that the book was onto something was because I kept seeing on my For You page or my TikTos or my Instagram Reels. Like satire about millennial bosses where they’re like, ‘Well, I have to take Pete. No, take it. Take it. I don’t care what you’re doing with it. Take it.’ Go for it. Yeah. I actually think there’s something really interesting happening in parenting as well.

SPEAKER_2

[ 00:11:52,150 ] That is great.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:11:53,220 ] Year. So bear with me on this. This trend right now, I don’t know if you have kids, but I have two little kids. I have a three-year-old and a one-year-old. Millennial parenting is trying to break the cycle of bad boomer parents. Like. The boomer parent really wanted to critique what you were eating and told you to stop complaining and yelled at you all the time. And the millennial parent. For better or for worse, is thinking about gentle parenting and breaking the cycle, and you know, creating boundaries but also in supporting social emotional learning, it’s it’s Daniel Tiger’s episodes. It’s it’s mine.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:12:24,250 ] That is one of the most interesting things I heard in doing my book research was people telling me, you know, the first example of a leader in most people’s life is a parent. That’s where you learn your first leadership skills is from your grown up in your childhood.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:12:36,500 ] Yes.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:12:38,590 ] I heard these themes echo of, you know, I’m trying to break the cycle. I’m trying to do it differently. I’m trying to be genuine and emotional, but also boundary. Conversations with parents, conversations with leaders and bosses, the same thing. So I’m optimistic. I think millennials are going to be the hero generation we need.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:12:55,870 ] Well, hopefully, hopefully we get to to create that change.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:13:01,090 ] And I mean, I say hopefully because.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:13:06,170 ] We also know, in the data, shows that, uh, historically, millennials, as of now, are and have been the most burnt out generation. Maybe it’s because of this pulling and pushing. We don’t know where to go, and do we please the boomers? Do we please the Gen Z? We’re leading, but no one taught us how to lead. They just put us here.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:13:28,730 ] Gallup even calls them the burnt out generation, period. Is leadership today?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:13:36,590 ] Harder and because of this, um, and a side question to that is: Because a lot of people say that it sort of also touches on what you were saying about parenting.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:13:54,750 ] Is Gen X becoming too soft to actually lead?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:13:59,830 ] So millennials are burnt out; will they make it to change the workplace? And once Gen Z comes in, if millennials didn’t make change, will they be able to do it because of how soft they are? This isn’t me speaking; this is their background talking about, but what are your thoughts on that?

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:14:18,850 ] Um. I think part of the reason that millennials are leading differently is because of that burnout.

SPEAKER_2

[ 00:14:24,350 ] Okay.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:14:25,530 ] Thinking really carefully, okay, now that I’m the boss, how can I make it so people don’t have to work 80-hour weeks? How can I establish four-day work weeks? How can I be clear about communication channels? How can I, you know, model work-life balance— or what I like to call, work-life integration.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:14:41,430 ] It’s not about balance, it’s about integrating the things you’re doing both at work and outside of it. It’s about how to think broadly about what it means to allow people to do their jobs first and be full people outside of them. It’s different. It is not just like worker bee. It is a person. And I think that is a really powerful thing. And it comes from a place of understanding how deeply soul-crushing work can be, if you’re not really mindful and thoughtful about it. Now is Gen Z too soft? I don’t think so. I think the ones who will step up and lead and the ones who will rise will be able to, you know, toughen up a little bit.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:15:16,440 ] But it’s been really interesting. You know, I work with so many Gen Z leaders and I talked with so many for my book research. And the thing that I heard throughout those conversations was. Wow, this is harder than I thought. And I’m having to learn these lessons the hard way of like, oh, firing people sucks. Doing layoffs sucks. This is so lonely. Having to make really hard decisions about people’s livelihood. I feel so isolated. So they’re trying to find different ways to solve those problems. But one of the generational truisms across every age and every moment is being in charge is mostly really hard.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:15:49,470 ] Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I really relate to what you just mentioned. It’s lonely at the top. And people find that out the hard way. I think everyone’s trying to reach the top. I encourage that. But to all our listeners out there, at least now, the way the world works and the workplace works, it is lonely at the top.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:16:10,700 ] It’s it’s. It’s literally having to step out of your comfort zone every day and ensuring that things work and processes work.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:16:23,819 ] Myself, as a leader, I will say I’m stressed out all the time. So, you know. But I think a lot of that stress does come from how do I make my team not feel stressed? Does that make sense?

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:16:35,520 ] Totally. You want to be the bullshit umbrella. Like you want to prevent them from dealing with the crap. And the only decisions that ever come to you are the really hard ones where there’s really no right answer. There’s only different variations of wrong answers. You have to do all the crappy things. Know people think that being the boss is fun and, like, yeah, in some places it’s lucrative. Maybe, but often the money is compensating you because it sucks emotionally. I think, for millennials in particular, right now, the fact that you know, if you’re doing a meeting over Zoom and your Zoom could be recorded and then put up on the Internet, and the one meeting where you show up poorly can ruin your career. The poorly framed, like, tweet or post or Instagram at the wrong time, can end you. The fact that your employees can review you on Glassdoor or on your Google reviews or post about you on social and blow up your spot. It adds a level of pressure. Yeah. I think that means that bosses have to be even more thoughtful about how they’re bringing intentionality into their communication.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:17:36,210 ] And it’s just hard. It’s hard.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:17:39,020 ] I mean, yes, but I do see a flip side to having all this technology and like the Glassdoor reviews. The workplace is becoming more transparent. And therefore, new policies and new everything are coming about because of how transparent it is. I mean, when I started off, oh my god, how many? years ago was that let’s say 10 years ago when I had my first job. There was no Glassdoor. If you wanted to enter a company, it was like, well. Risk it and you’ll figure out how it really is within the first few weeks. Right and then you were taught to not quit because you can’t be a quitter. Um, so I do see an upside to all of this. That you’re mentioning, the workplace is becoming more transparent, even with these. I I’m not sure if New York started this. I believe so, but the new um Salary transparency law. Now employers have to mention how much people will make at this job post. And Mexico is trying to pull that off.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:18:41,100 ] And I just think that’s amazing, really making the workplace more transparent.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:18:46,370 ] It is on the net, good. It’s just harder for leaders and most leaders don’t have a good playbook on how to do that. And one of the things I write about at length, when we’re in charge, is really being thoughtful about how do you give transparency to your team? Like, what? It’s not their job to understand every line item in a budget, but they want it because in the same way you can Google, like, where are my clothes made and where is this factory like set up. You want to be able to know how your company is running. Yeah, you’re a boss, you want to be able to provide that transparency, but also: How do you provide the context? How do you give the insight? How do you make it so that people who may not understand what they’re looking at know not to freak out or like, actually, the thing that they might think they should freak out about, you know, from experience, is not really where the problem is going to be.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:19:30,070 ] Yeah.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:19:30,700 ] That’s the kind of tension that, again, makes leadership for those stepping up in this moment who want to do it differently. It’s just— it’s so hard.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:19:40,010 ] It’s so hard because all that you even have to do it with. Smile on your face because I’m gonna ask you this and I’m certain you’re gonna say, ‘Yes.’

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:19:49,430 ] I might be a bit paranoid, but.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:19:52,580 ] I always think.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:19:54,460 ] In as a leader, as a person, as a brother, as a whatever.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:19:59,010 ] In my mind, I’m always thinking. Act and present yourself as if you’re always being recorded. And I don’t know if you tell these two young leaders— who are maybe trying to get into office— but you need to act the part. But also remember that you might always be always recorded. So you’ve got to be careful about how you lead and what you say.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:20:21,510 ] Would you agree with that? Is that something you tell young aspiring political leaders? It’s this parent. Oh, yeah.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:20:27,670 ] It’s not quite paranoid.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:20:28,870 ] Anything can end you.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:20:30,870 ] Well, it’s remembering that you’re when you’re stepping into a leadership role, you are agreeing to be a public person. Even if your leadership role is just like being the boss at your company, being the president of your PTA, you know, that’s a leadership role and that’s public in some way. And the people you are responsible for, the people you lead, like—have some ownership of the story that they tell about you. And you actually have some opportunity here to shape what that story is, and that’s where social media can be so helpful. That’s when we talk about brand building. That’s where you think about, for example, how am I visually presenting over this video chat— what’s in my background, what am I wearing, makeup today or not. You know, how am I engaging. I do think that sense that, at any moment, you could slip up. That is one of the reasons why authenticity is so important. Because it’s much easier if you just can be yourself all the time. But also.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:21:22,650 ] That’s a whole different ball of wax. What does it mean to be yourself? Who are you?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:21:26,790 ] What does it mean to bring your true self to work?

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:21:31,520 ] Is work the right container for your true self? I think no. I think work is the right container for your best self. But ideally, that version of your best self is as close to possible as who you really are.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:21:41,979 ] Yeah. Hard, hard, hard, hard. Yeah. And I mean, it’s 2026. Yeah. 2026 and what is it going to take for people to take on a leadership role? This year, what would you say are the top three skills that a person needs right now. To leave.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:22:05,410 ] either a country and if you want to make those separate answers three and three but either a country Or. I can’t imagine the stress of that. A country or a team. What are those skills right now that you see are indispensable?

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:22:21,120 ] I think.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:22:22,500 ] very clear sense of self and sense of values. So like doing a really deep inventory of who you are, what you believe, what is important to you, what is negotiable and what is not. to understand When you show up. what is your decision framework going to be like what are the things that are driving you and what are the ways in which your sense of self. will be showing up in all the different places so it’s not just like who am i But it’s. Who am I, and how does that impact how people perceive me? All that we say the most important skill here is being able to talk to a therapist, like, or work with a mental health practitioner. The second thing that I think people really need are boundaries. You need to know.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:23:05,520 ] Where are the places you’re gonna let people in and where they are not. Like, I think a lot about social media as a good example here. What are the parts of yourself that you are showing to the world and what are the parts that you are keeping private? Private doesn’t mean secret. Doesn’t mean bad. Doesn’t mean shameful. It just means private. Like I think about, you know, I mentioned earlier, I’m a mom, I have two little kids. Being a mom is a huge part of who I am. My kids don’t go on the internet. Like, I don’t post pictures of my kids on the internet for any number of reasons. Does that mean it’s inauthentic? No, they are private. And that’s a boundary that I think is really important.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:23:42,020 ] The third thing I think is really understanding modern communication. So, you know, I talked to some leaders who were explaining to me they had a boomer boss that they were working with who really struggled with what emojis to use in Slack. Like, they didn’t know— should I change my skin color emoji? What does this one mean? What does that one mean? And it’s such a small thing. But I think, for those of us who’ve grown up online and are a little more fluent in these environments, you know, understanding that all comms is both external and internal comms. That when I post something on Instagram, it is both a thing that I am sending to the world about my organization, but it’s also a message to my team and my employees. That my LinkedIn posts are doing multiple serving multiple goals, and then I know how to use these tools in a way that serves them. Like that is a power. And the leaders who can do that well, whether you’re running for office or running a company. That ability to use modern communication to every possible strategic end can transform your end goals.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:24:45,840 ] Okay. I mean, yeah. And that last thing about communication that really hit me because I, uh. Until recently, I still considered myself a youngster. Maybe I just have Peter Pan syndrome. But as more and more I get to work with younger generations, I find myself having difficulty understanding the Gen Z slang.

SPEAKER_2

[ 00:25:09,530 ] Yeah.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:25:10,650 ] There’s so many things that I just don’t understand. And I think, when we talk about this constant need for upskilling to remain relevant in the workforce, I think one of those upskilling scenarios is communication. We got to stay updated on how the younger ones are communicating, because if we’re leading younger people, we got to talk their talk. And I think that’s hard. Because they’re really good at making up these words. There’s so many. There should be, like, a Gen Z workplace dictionary.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:25:43,600 ] I mean, I think about the bosses I’ve had in years past, or, you know, when I talked with leaders for when we’re in charge, who would say my boss refused to join Slack. Like, they didn’t understand it. They didn’t think it was useful. They didn’t do it. Everyone else on the team was on Slack. But if we wanted to communicate with the boss, we had to send an email. Or like, print it out and bring it to their office. They were like, ‘Yeah, it’s like a charming personality. It’s not charming. That’s a failure to show up where your team is. And it’s missing an opportunity to establish team culture. That feels. Unfathomable. For those of us who are in like our 30s and 20s. So thinking like, how do you show up in one of the modern workplaces? And how can you really engage there in a way that feels true to who you are and also models the kind of way you want your employees to engage there?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:26:25,110 ] Attention. Yeah. and um I think to alleviate some of that tension, something that I do and I see a lot of leaders within my generation is.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:26:39,810 ] We tend to do something that’s called consensus-driven leadership.

SPEAKER_2

[ 00:26:45,030 ] Thank you.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:26:46,560 ] Is that a stereotype?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:26:48,350 ] Does that actually work? What do you think? And how would you define consensus-driven leadership? Maybe it’s pretty straightforward, but for anyone out there that’s like, ‘What is that?’ ‘What is it?’ ‘Why are people doing it?’ ‘Why am I doing it?’ And is it good?

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:27:04,620 ] Consensus-driven leadership is trying to bring everyone along with you to try and make a decision as a group. Generally speaking, it can be done very well, I think, when people are good organizers, meaning they like really have the one-on-one conversations ahead of time. You persuade people, you move people forward together.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:27:23,820 ] That can be really powerful. What it’s not, and when it’s done poorly, it absolves you of any accountability. Because it’s like, I didn’t make the wrong decision. The group made the wrong decision. So one of the things, when I’m working with young leaders, I really encourage them, understand.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:27:38,860 ] That part of the perk, I guess, of being in charge is that you are the final decision maker. The downside to that is you have accountability for if it’s a wrong decision. So you have to be really thoughtful about what are the decision-making models you’re setting up. I’ve This is not like a new take, but there’s a lot of different ways you can do it from you know, singular decision maker to. uh you can do voting, you can do consensus building, you can do uh articulating the inputs that people can have and then who is the final decision maker you can do simple majority stuff. There’s lots of different ways you can do it. What I really encourage leaders to do is be incredibly crystal clear about how decisions are made, who is the final say, and who is held accountable. And if you do consensus making decisions, you better do it in a. On a like question where it’s okay if the group makes the wrong decision.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:28:33,520 ] Is it okay to say that in every decision?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:28:36,910 ] That someone has to be accountable.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:28:38,970 ] Yes. Stop.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:28:41,410 ] You should know.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:28:45,080 ] Where the buck stops. Now, there’s a lot of people who talk about and write about like lowest best decision making, which is ideally that the most you should make it so that. Um, the lowest person on the org chart— the most junior person— however you want to describe it, like where are the decisions that they can make and they have decisions they have power over. And that they are then held accountable for. Because ideally, like I’m the executive of my company. Most of the schisms actually shouldn’t be mine. They should be lower in the org chart or elsewhere on the org chart so that the things that come to me are the things that really only I can weigh in on. And what are the inputs I need to do that? I think that’s a really important skill for leaders to build— understanding that actually you don’t need to be in charge of everything. And I think it’s a helpful skill, like upskilling for junior employees, which is to understand that to have agency is to have accountability.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:29:34,910 ] Yeah, I definitely relate to that learning. But it’s hard. It’s hard to learn how to delegate and trust others with making decisions. But I’ve seen it throughout my career, personally, that if you’re always the person deciding everything, it just becomes a bottleneck. You’re not teaching your younger team members to make decisions for themselves. So yes, I definitely agree with you on that.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:30:04,460 ] We’re nearing the end of our episode. This has been very insightful.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:30:08,370 ] But I want to ask you, for anyone out there listening. Who’s thinking I want to lead, but I don’t look or sound like a traditional leader. What’s your message to them?

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:30:28,170 ] You know, there’s this— I love this side. Yeah. There’s this idea that you are born a leader.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:30:36,670 ] I think that’s total bullshit.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:30:39,270 ] Okay.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:30:40,150 ] I think leading is like music or art or sports, and the way that you become one is by doing it. The way you become a musician is by making music. The way you become an athlete is by getting on the field. The way you become a leader is by taking power and executing on it. That’s by showing up and bringing people along with you for your vision of what is possible.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:31:01,410 ] You don’t have to look a certain way, sound a certain way, or be a certain way to do that. What you have to do, I think, is be a little brave. Be a little vulnerable.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:31:10,440 ] Have a sense of where you want things to go. You’re going to make mistakes. You’re going to mess up. You’re going to upset people. People are going to hate you. That’s okay. That’s part of being in charge.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:31:22,319 ] What’s the point of leadership is doing it anyway.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:31:26,230 ] Wow, I got goosebumps when you were saying that. Uh, I really appreciate that. Um, I think I’m gonna ask our producer to like edit that specific answer. I’m just gonna hear that every morning and doing my morning affirmations in front of the mirror. That was amazing. Thank you so much for that. Um, It’s been an honor getting to talk to you, Amanda. Thank you so much. I hope we can do a part two mid-year to see if what we were talking about about is sort of going that way or not. I think the work that you’re doing is amazing— preparing young leaders to lead, especially because, at least me and I, and I see this a lot. It’s not just me; a lot of leaders, at least in the workplace, a lot of leaders were put in leadership positions and no one told them how. Sort of like parenting. No one really teaches you how to be a parent, right? You just have to get back up and you know. So I think that the work that you do is amazing.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:32:26,280 ] You’re literally a mentor. So, um, kudos on that. Um, and if people want to learn more about the work that you do, about your new book, when we’re in charge, where can they do that? How can they reach out? Where is your book available? We’ll be sure to link it within our episode page.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:32:47,130 ] Yeah. How can people get in touch and know more about you and the work that you do?

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:32:50,670 ] You can find more about the organization at runforsomething. net. The book, When We’re in Charge, is available wherever books are sold. It’s also an audiobook, ebook, hardcover. Um and I am all over the internet at Amanda LITM or Amanda Littman. You can find out more about me at amandalittman. com.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:33:07,410 ] Amazing. Thank you so much, Amanda. Thank you so much for being here with us, for sharing your insights. And I really do hope that we get to do this again soon.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:33:15,770 ] I would love that, thank you.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:33:17,670 ] Awesome. Thank you so much. Take care. And I’m looking forward to what this year has in store for us. Let’s find out.

Amanda  Litman

[ 00:33:24,390 ] Happy 2026.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:33:26,180 ] Happy 2026. Ciao.