About This Episode
In this episode of The Future of Work® Podcast, Frank Cottle speaks with Angela R. Howard, Founder of Call for Culture, about the deeper cultural changes influencing today’s workplace. Drawing from her background in organizational psychology, people-centered culture strategy, and workplace change, Angela explores why generational conversations often repeat throughout history and why leaders must focus on dignity, respect, fair pay, belonging, and human-centered leadership. The conversation also examines AI’s role in management, the future of leadership, the connection between education and workforce development, and how organizations can build cultures that support both people and performance.
About Angela R. Howard
Angela R. Howard is a globally recognized equity-centered organizational culture and change strategist, Founder of Call for Culture, and former Head of People and Culture. She helps organizations build humane, people-centered workplaces through sustainable culture transformation, social impact, and inclusive leadership, and she also leads Call for Culture’s annual Culture Impact Lab conference.
What You’ll Learn
- Why generational complaints about work repeat across history.
- How dignity, respect, and fair pay remain central to workplace culture.
- Why AI requires leaders to strengthen human skills.
- How toxic leadership can weaken even strong workplace benefits.
- Why education and workforce development need closer alignment.
- How leaders can help people adapt to constant change.
- Why workplace culture must be embodied through hiring, coaching, accountability, and values.
- How smaller and family-owned businesses may experience culture change differently.
- Why employees should become teachers of AI, not passive users.
- How community, belonging, and loneliness connect to the future of work.
Transcript
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:00:00,000 ]So oftentimes I see companies provide all these great perks, but they don’t create a safe environment for their people or their leaders are toxic leaders who are creating horrible experiences day to day.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:00:12,940 ] Angela, welcome to the Future Work Podcast. Gosh, it’s really great to have you here again, I’ll say.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:00:20,380 ] We’ve known each other, what, for three or four years now, I guess.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:00:23,820 ] I feel like it’s been longer— like I think it was like mid-2023—when we had our first pod. It was you were on my podcast for the first time.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:00:31,100 ] So yeah, yeah, no—I remember it well, and so much has changed since then. You’ve made such amazing I don’t want to say ‘progress’ because you’re already making progress, but your impact on culture and on the way corporations and people within those corporations work. I know you have an upcoming book. That’s exciting. What’s the title of that book again?
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:00:54,430 ] Yeah, it’s called ‘The Kids Don’t Want to Work: How to Create the Workplace Every Generation Has Been Waiting For.’ Which I think is going to tie right into some of the conversations we’re having today. So I’m excited.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:01:07,140 ] Let’s talk about that because, you know, today’s workforce and leadership. Um, it’s.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:01:14,950 ] Are the challenges we’re seeing really signs of a crisis, or are we witnessing a larger cultural reckoning, I’ll say? That organizations just can’t ignore anymore.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:01:27,530 ] Remember, things don’t want to work.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:01:29,840 ] Because I want to work. Because I want to work. And I mean, it’s meant to be kind of a parody, right? It’s kind of a. a nod to I think some of the cyclical conversations we’ve had. Across history around workplace and generational differences and Honestly, I think focusing on the generational divide is a distraction.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:01:51,759 ] You and I talked a little bit about this in our previous conversations, but I think we’re talking more about a reckoning at this point where there’s an intergenerational shift and movement around changes to work in the workplace.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:02:06,100 ] You know, you talk about things like AI and the introduction of that into our lives and how we work. In particular, how leadership needs to change. In the context of AI really taking over management responsibilities now, we have to be more intuitive and we have to use more human skills to really evolve work.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:02:28,360 ] And what I worry about is that we’re kind of using AI as a crutch for that. So I do think we’re seeing a reckoning and some changes coming.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:02:37,020 ] Well, who’s the reckoning between, though? I mean, a reckoning is usually between two forces.
Daniel Lamadrid
[ 00:02:43,760 ] And I.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:02:45,690 ] you talk about generational i i come from the you know i’m a i’m a boomer in fact i’m a early boomer. which means I’m really over the hill.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:02:55,820 ] um it remember when I was entering the workforce or was a young man before i went into the workforce and you’ve got to go back 60s early vietnam era Okay. a lot of change in society going on, totally different than we have today. but just as big.
Daniel Lamadrid
[ 00:03:15,769 ] Yeah.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:03:16,490 ] Bigger. And my dad. would comment, oh, you guys don’t know how to work like we had to work. He was a Depression-era kid. that suffered through and fought through World War II. And so his idea of work was radically different than my idea of work.
Daniel Lamadrid
[ 00:03:33,450 ] Hmm.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:03:34,140 ] And yet we all ended up okay. mm-hmm, So is this really a reckoning?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:03:40,910 ] Or is it just a natural process of the older generation always looking at the younger generation and saying, ‘You guys aren’t as good. You didn’t walk 10 miles in the snow in your bare feet to get to school. All these old ridiculous stories that you hear. But it’s true.’ um.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:03:58,570 ] What? How do we recognize?
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:04:01,440 ] Yeah, I mean, I hear what you’re saying, because you’re absolutely right. I mean, there is a.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:04:07,350 ] There’s actually a Reddit thread that, if any of you are interested, there’s newspaper clippings from like 1863.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:04:15,619 ] Like going all the way back, newspaper clippings, the kids don’t want to work, everyone’s lazy, nobody wants to work anymore. Like we’ve been through this story over and over again.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:04:26,050 ] Although I think we’re talking about there’s been some differences and know it’s all about progress, right? Each generation is looking to advance and progress.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:04:35,180 ] I would argue, though, that we’ve been asking for similar things since the beginning of time. Uh, you and I talked about the you know uh ancient Egypt and the first strikes that happened. Everything is centered around dignity and respect.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:04:51,110 ] Things like fair pay and, you know, caring about the people we employ. So what the book is about is: What are those common myths that have seeped into every generation that we need to start debunking? To get ahead of this conversation, because if we’re going to do this every generation, how much time are we wasting, how much uh harm are we doing potentially generation to generation? Let’s get to the basics. About what we need to fix at the root.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:05:19,840 ] Well, you know, it’s funny in my generation.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:05:23,370 ] We said, what I think is being said today, we wanted to work on what we did to have meaning.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:05:30,660 ] That’s right.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:05:31,350 ] Okay, so I don’t think that’s changed what we want.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:05:35,980 ] Yep.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:05:36,770 ] I think what we the reckoning needs to be that: How do we actually do it? mm-hmm, actually, give work and that part of our lives balance and meeting effectively.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:05:50,520 ] uh, and with ai coming along as it has, is that constructive or disruptive to the achievement of that meaning.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:05:58,670 ] hmm.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:06:00,870 ] yeah, i would say.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:06:03,710 ] they’re, you know, well. i’m gonna push back a little bit because this is something i’ve been reckoning with with myself when it comes to this conversation about culture.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:06:13,860 ] movements and shifts that we’re seeing.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:06:16,540 ] i think what we’re seeing this generation, which is a little bit different. is i actually want to de-emphasize work. I want work to have less meaning in my life because I want the social systems around me to actually benefit my life and work is a piece of that. So we have Gen Z’s, you know, caring less about work. I struggle with this concept because I think work is stepping in where there’s a gap or a void.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:06:44,510 ] And we have to be looking at other social systems and structures to be questioning, ‘Why do we put so much of our identity into work?’
Frank Cottle
[ 00:06:52,540 ] Well, the question then, what would those social systems be that would remove the identity of work and yet still allow the progress, material progress, intellectual progress, etc. All labels of progress— not just economic. Um, exist what would those social institutions be and who would provide them and who would pay for them?
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:07:21,040 ] Yeah, great question.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:07:22,880 ] Yeah, you got to have an answer for that.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:07:26,440 ] Uh, I, I have an answer. I have an idealized answer.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:07:29,560 ] Okay, okay, well that’s, you know, all utopias start with the ideal, right?
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:07:35,620 ] Yes, that’s right. And what I so I want to be clear— you know, de-emphasizing work is it is an idealized concept, right? Because we, we lean on work currently at least in this country for things like healthcare.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:07:47,840 ] I have to interrupt. I’m going to sit. De-emphasizing work is an idealized concept so long as the replacement is better than the emphasis on work and productivity.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:08:01,710 ] Yes.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:08:02,740 ] You have to have a better thing, not just a different thing.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:08:07,140 ] Agreed. So, yes, we’re de-emphasizing work. We have to have these other social systems, like I mentioned, that are stepping in. So, for example, we’ve spent a lot of time over the last, I’d say, five to 10 years focused on things like belonging and community and building community within the workplace.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:08:25,130 ] Unfortunately, we also have a loneliness epidemic that is happening. So people are leaning so heavily on the workplace as their source of community. I don’t think that’s healthy. I think we should go back to other social systems where we build a community a friend group community or you know your local church or your local community center you know those types of things need to be in place in order in my opinion, for it to be well rounded. If you are only leaning on your workplace as a source of community, that’s a That’s a a challenge.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:08:59,560 ] Well, when we use the term community, and I would um i don’t want to say argue but i would challenge the use of the word community in the singular.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:09:10,980 ] Because if you look at communities, let’s go back to.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:09:15,780 ] Neanderthal times. I can do that real easy. Thank you. But let’s go back to the times of Danderthal times. Community was a family group or an expanded family group. that came together for one purpose.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:09:30,300 ] safety.
Daniel Lamadrid
[ 00:09:31,290 ] Mm hmm.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:09:32,020 ] Security. We’ll say security more than safety because they had food security as well as physical security, etc.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:09:38,890 ] Okay.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:09:42,050 ] So what is the definition of community today?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:09:46,450 ] And the purpose of Community Day, is it food security? Is it safety? Or is it just feeling like you belong to something, but you’re not sure if you have a specific community, with a specific belief system, with a specific ambition and goal to be happy within it.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:10:06,180 ] And if you can’t define that, mm. Of course you’re going to be lonely. You don’t know what you want.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:10:11,950 ] Correct. Yeah and um.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:10:15,440 ] So this is the challenge. I mean, if we talk about a loneliness epidemic, we’re really talking about um a community that provides social support, emotional support. And so, again, we’ve we’ve We’ve been building this idea of culture and community into workplaces, which I think is needed. It absolutely is needed.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:10:36,620 ] And I think we’ve leaned a little bit too heavily on it. The same thing when it comes to things like healthcare, childcare, organizations are building these things into their systems because people are saying, ‘This is needed for me to fully show up at work,’ but shouldn’t our government be providing? These things, um, so it kind of it surprises me how, how absent employers are in these broader conversations, because it does impact the way they build workplace culture and the experiences at work.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:11:11,920 ] Well, you know, I would argue, number one, I would argue, I don’t trust government. You know, what are the most feared words that you’ll ever hear? I’m from the government and I’m here to help you.
Daniel Lamadrid
[ 00:11:25,200 ] Mm-hmm.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:11:26,000 ] So I fall into that category because I think there’s more waste. and less progress in government than any other institution. It doesn’t matter which government. or whose government. I just think in general that’s a not a good solution. But. I do think that employers or groups getting together independently, cooperative insurance groups that can lower the cost of health insurance for people are much more important. Perspective then. And where they’re self-insured are much more effective and much more cost-effective than our commercial groups and certainly the government. So that’s a solution in that particular. From Korea.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:12:12,320 ] Maybe needs to be explored much more aggressively.
Daniel Lamadrid
[ 00:12:15,540 ] Yeah.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:12:16,560 ] Um, uh.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:12:18,580 ] I don’t know. Is it an employer’s obligation?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:12:23,020 ] And maybe it’s an obligation really to their shareholders for performance purposes.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:12:27,940 ] Is it an employer’s obligation to provide these things, though? Or do we look at it as if you want to win the war for talent? And talent is where you win the war in. In a commercial sense. Um, Aren’t you?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:12:44,470 ] Protecting your shareholders’ interests first. By providing these benefits to the people that work within the company, rather than the people first that want to work there.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:12:56,010 ] Because the economic benefit of it is, I think, very high.
Daniel Lamadrid
[ 00:12:59,590 ] Hmm.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:13:00,310 ] You know, I know in our own company, we provide a wide range of benefits, right down to gym memberships and such, specifically to win that war for talent. mm-hmm And God, I love our team. Maybe that’s a smaller or a private company issue. As opposed to a large public company issue. I don’t know.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:13:21,630 ] Yeah, I mean, when I think about the the mixture of like, what does it mean to create that like, competitive experience?
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:13:32,320 ] Are you familiar with Maslow’s hierarchy of needs? I’m sure you are. We’re going to nerd out for a little bit. Um, but it basically says you need to satisfy one thing to move to the next. So oftentimes I think what happens is, so you’ve got like physiological needs at the very bottom, right? These are the things, these are the obligations we have to people we’re employing. And then you move up the pyramid at the very top are things like self-actualization, feelings of belonging, you know, all these things that we talk about. But you have to satisfy one thing before you move to the next one. So oftentimes I see companies provide all these great perks, but they don’t create a safe environment for their people or their leaders are toxic leaders who are creating horrible experiences day to day. So it’s kind of an eye roll to provide, let’s say, I don’t know, even something like ‘vto’ or ‘pto’ or you know, whatever whatever perk you’re well, let’s put it in civil terms.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:14:29,070 ] If you’re the owner or the manager of a company and you’re an asshole, ‘Yeah.’ No matter if you give them a Jim Nguyen membership or not. You’re still an asshole and still a lousy place to work.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:14:39,050 ] Exactly.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:14:39,910 ] Uh, and but I think people are realizing employers are realizing that as a management style, being too Munch of an asshole.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:14:54,610 ] It doesn’t work.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:14:56,500 ] It doesn’t work and you can’t get things done. Everybody leaves. And so, hopefully, through self-selection processes, that type of management is slowly going away because you know, toxic managers and toxic employees too.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:15:14,860 ] Sure.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:15:15,400 ] Know it’s not just toxic managers; there’s toxic people that, in get in, in companies and when there’s a concentration, then the whole company becomes toxic and implodes somehow.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:15:26,890 ] Do you think changing, shifting paths a little bit? You think part of. The challenges we’re dealing with are our educational system setting the wrong expectations or what. Career success really looks like for the current generation or for the younger generation?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:15:44,220 ] What is career success?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:15:46,190 ] itself. And are our educational institutions a traditional path on that? Oh, real simple. Get an MBA from Harvard and you’re set for life. Um, Really?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:15:57,180 ] I know a lot of those people that are miserable.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:15:59,900 ] Um, What’s that role?
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:16:05,010 ] I think there needs to be a closer knit conversation between workforce development and the education system. I I see a big disconnect right now where, first and foremost, the workplace, in particular, ends up at the tail end of change, period. And I would maybe even say the education system follows that lead. And then they’re not talking to each other.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:16:31,840 ] The velocity of societal change, change that we need to evolve and to create the right skill for the next generation, is just the flywheel is stuck. In places, and I think that we need to have more connection so those two things speak to each other because I think there’s a lag.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:16:52,070 ] You know, it’s interesting. When I was in college, I had a hard time in college. I was kicked out of my first college— I went to or asked not to return— at least. And I had a hard time keeping focused as a young person. A lot of stuff going on. But one of the concepts that I came to, and I think this might be today too, is that I looked at college, I looked at my professors, and I looked at everything that’s going on. Geez, all college is doing is teaching me how to work for somebody else.
Daniel Lamadrid
[ 00:17:22,849 ] Hmm.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:17:23,930 ] If I want to get a job at IBM, college is great. But if I want to go out and create things on my own and do things on my own, the traditional education in the colleges that I was attending, which were high quality liberal arts schools, wasn’t going to help me.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:17:42,010 ] You know, it really didn’t set the right foundation. And when I look at all my friends that have graduated from various of those schools. Man, what a mix.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:17:52,180 ] And sometimes a mixed-up group of people.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:17:55,420 ] There was no foundation there. Today, maybe career expectations are that are set through our educational institutions, even the recruitment of their recruitment efforts to bring people in— just look at television ads for various jobs. The expectations they create are.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:18:16,970 ] Sort of.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:18:18,590 ] narcotic.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:18:22,410 ] Yeah, yeah, I think there’s a huge gap between the conversations happening between the two institutions.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:18:30,200 ] To your point, I think you talked earlier about employers getting together in a collective way to talk about skills of the future.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:18:39,540 ] Foundational skills that we need to be teaching. I mean, again, AI— we’re gonna probably mention it a million times today because it’s such a source of velocity when it comes to skills and what skills are going to be needed. It’s not about learning AI or like. Building an AI strategy, it’s like how it’s actually incorporated into everything we do now. So that’s a very different skill set.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:19:02,750 ] And the things like human skills, leadership skills, those things are.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:19:07,390 ] Sorely under taught or, you know, preparing students for the workforce?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:19:14,960 ] Well, you know, you use the word ‘student,’ which is one of my favorites. We tell people in business— whether they work in our company or just across the companies and industry that we know— that in order to succeed, they must become the best student of their industry.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:19:32,100 ] That’s right.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:19:33,210 ] We have changed that.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:19:36,470 ] We now say, ‘to succeed, you must become the best feature in your industry.’
Daniel Lamadrid
[ 00:19:46,850 ] Oh, okay. And by
Frank Cottle
[ 00:19:47,910 ] ‘teacher,’ mm-hmm, you’re going to have to teach your agents, your AI agents, how to actually do things well.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:19:58,610 ] And as a result of that, you must be a superior student yourself. You really need to know, if you’re going to be a professor instead of just a student, you need to know the subject matter better. So everybody, in order to make AI work, inside of a company. You have to tell AI what to do. It’s no different than any other teammate. You have to manage them and educate them. And I think that there’s a oh it can do this it can do it can’t do anything without you That’s right. Okay and so elevating people’s thought process to becoming teachers of AI agents as part of their job description rather than just producers of product.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:20:40,129 ] Intellectual or physical, I think, is an important trend shift that we’re going to have to pay attention to. And I don’t know that large companies have gotten there yet—I think they’re still trying to figure out how to cut headcount. Uh, by doing redundant, getting rid of redundant work rather than grow themselves by using AI correctly.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:21:06,620 ] And I don’t think. A lot of them. I think it’s a terrible mistake, but that’s me. And that takes you to family-owned businesses versus large corporations.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:21:16,740 ] What are the value differences that you see? Will these changes, this reckoning, happen? Will it happen in business from the bottom up?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:21:28,520 ] or from the top down.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:21:32,670 ] You mean in regards to family-owned businesses versus?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:21:35,830 ] Yeah, yeah, I mean, if you look at the total number of people employed in the United States, just use the US as an example. The great majority of them are in companies of less than 50 employees. MM-HMM. The great majority of those are family or private investor-owned. MM-HMM. So let’s call them family or private investor-owned businesses.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:21:56,750 ] If 60 or 70% of all employees, then we’re talking about mass here, work for those kind of companies.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:22:03,750 ] Do those companies lead or do they follow?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:22:06,980 ] Where is this reckoning going to come from?
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:22:10,790 ] Yeah, that’s a great question.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:22:14,440 ] I think the I don’t know if it matters. There’s nuance to your point about how these. two groups of companies operate. But I do think the expectations around employment, regardless if it’s a private company, a family owned business, a large corporation.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:22:32,610 ] I think it follows the same the same reckoning, which is You have a movement of people. Again, I talk about this intergenerational change that I think is at the core of the reckoning. It’s not just one generation. Everyone’s asking for something different. And there’s things happening around us that are. creating velocity around that. I do think smaller companies are going to struggle.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:22:59,440 ] for talent, potentially. I mean, I’m I’m just going to guess that maybe the ability to adopt AI effectively might be a little bit slower in these cases with these small.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:23:09,610 ] Why do you think that?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:23:12,570 ] What’s your foundation for that thought process?
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:23:16,600 ] I think just what I’ve found with some of the clients that we worked with is a smaller, you know, organizations tend to hold on to processes tighter—um, you know. I think, thinking about like things like loyalty within a family-owned business in particular, right? Things like loyalty, super, super important. This idea of, like, we’re a family here becomes like a part of the indoctrination. It’s actually one of the myths in my book that I feel like we need to get rid of is this idea that your employer is your family. And in some cases it actually is. So it’s an interesting.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:23:52,600 ] makeup of kind of the way the culture is built and how how the organization grows or changes over time when we talk about family-owned businesses. We know that the third generation is like a reckoning itself, right? Where there’s kind of this tension between the old and the new in succession. So I think there’s just there’s additional dynamics that make it a little bit harder to change over time.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:24:15,580 ] It’s funny.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:24:17,710 ] One of our other companies is a medium-sized enterprise.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:24:22,990 ] Technically, you’d call it family-owned. Think of it more as privately owned on a closed basis.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:24:30,450 ] Um, my view, as a leader from a values point of view, is that before I make an offer to someone of employment, mm hmm. I have to think about what’s the most important element of employment for most people. Michigan. and job security.
Daniel Lamadrid
[ 00:24:50,010 ] Hmm?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:24:50,870 ] job security. They need to be able to depend upon that employment so they can create their own family and establish their own career. So I always think. Are we able to make this offer with the surety that we’ll be able to sustain this position so that this person and their family will be secure.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:25:11,130 ] It’s a responsibility of an employer to think that way, in my view. That’s one of our particular values. I don’t know that corporates feel that way.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:25:21,360 ] I don’t know that Citibank really says that when they do a job search through Randstad and sift through. 10, 000 CVs with an AI system.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:25:32,429 ] And then they let 12,000 people go in the next quarter. Um, so I think family companies or small to medium enterprises— and probably more medium enterprises, companies with revenues between 25 and $150 million.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:25:54,240 ] So the real established companies are smaller. I think they’re probably some of the earliest adapters to change. Because they care about the employees.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:26:05,730 ] And they may not all be family. But, sort of familial. Type values or fraternal values, paternal values at times.
Daniel Lamadrid
[ 00:26:16,470 ] Hmm.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:26:17,130 ] Eternal.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:26:18,820 ] All come into play. Because you’re very close with people. Um, You’re close to the working. And one of our solutions to the Oh.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:26:30,750 ] youth employment issues, we ensure that a minimum of 10% of everyone in the company is an intern.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:26:38,510 ] That’s great. Yeah.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:26:40,170 ] About 60%, 65%.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:26:44,760 ] Ratio of input turns staying long-term and permanently.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:26:49,630 ] When they graduate college, they stay with the company. It’s not internship for credit. It’s incurred ship as a career path.
Daniel Lamadrid
[ 00:26:57,600 ] Ooh.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:26:58,240 ] Is one thing we think is it.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:27:00,960 ] Um, But. Anyway, I guess. Family values.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:27:06,840 ] How those tools, are they going to be part of that reckoning? Like I’m saying, who’s going to move first? Which type?
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:27:15,150 ] Yeah, I mean, I I challenge that just a little bit because you know I think family values can be weaponized within a workplace. I think they can be used to deteriorate the culture quite often. Like I mentioned, the idea of loyalty is you know it has to be a two-way street. I think you’re doing it right. I think you’re doing it.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:27:38,540 ] I think that street starts with the company. Hmm-hmm.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:27:43,085 ] Hmm-hmm. And so that’s just a balance, I think, to create the progress. And I keep saying the word velocity, but like the speed to change or the speed to progress. Because if you stay in this place of loyalty to a person or a group of people, it really does stunt the ability for progress to happen and for tough decisions to be made. Because sometimes even course with all the right intent and structure around treating your people well and like humans and with dignity and respect. Sometimes you have to make tough decisions to ensure the business runs or progresses, and that could be the person you hired who you really liked, and the vibe check was great. But over time, it’s a floating definition, isn’t it? Yes.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:28:32,670 ] Because I always like to say, ‘culture is the worst behavior at your company. And sometimes we don’t. Monitor that enough because we are close to people or there’s a subjectivity around.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:28:43,100 ] Around it.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:28:43,890 ] Well, the great majority of people do work for smaller and mid-sized companies. So how do you really make and insure and monitor that the workplace is healthy and that the productivity culture of purpose anything you’re trying to connect to. More deeply stays in sync.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:29:03,810 ] How does one do that?
Frank Cottle
[ 00:29:06,320 ] Compete, thrive, grow. Um, provide security to people. Um, what’s the magic rule?
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:29:15,230 ] Yeah, I wish there was just one magic rule. It’s a system. And I would say it’s connected to your values. You mentioned values earlier. I think those need to be fully embodied. Um, top down, bottom up. And that includes how you hire, how you talk about performance, how you coach. It includes accountability and who gets fired, who gets to stay within the organization. Um, it’s how you talk about yourself to the marketplace, so it’s a full, like, human operating system exists.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:29:50,400 ] Yes. Will the impact of AI or will AI’s impact? Same thing, I guess.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:29:59,639 ] Redefine what a healthy workplace looks like.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:30:04,950 ] I think so.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:30:06,850 ] Will it define? I think it will be.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:30:10,560 ] A part of the definition because it’s going to free up, I think, I have a lot of human potential.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:30:17,840 ] And our ability to more effectively lead. So I think right now there’s You know, the traditional definition of leadership has a lot to do with management. It’s delegating, it’s managing projects, timelines.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:30:30,540 ] All of that can be done by AI now. So what human potential do we have to step more into human-centered leadership where leaders are.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:30:40,720 ] sensing the signals around them. They’re building relationships so they can create more support for their people. I think it’s going to be a big part of, hopefully, how successful we can be.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:30:50,590 ] Well, I just feel there’s a distinct difference between a leader. and a manager.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:30:57,900 ] Oh yeah, but most people aren’t managing right now.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:30:59,980 ] A manager can become a leader or a manager can be a natural leader. The newest intern. Joining a company can be a leader. Can be a natural leader and exhibit those qualities, but I think they’re different roles that are played between the two. So let’s move away from managers and the tasks that AI can help managers with.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:31:26,370 ] Half whiz on things and make their work more efficient. Yeah and let’s go to leadership—uh, vision, values, things of that nature. Um, how do you define and the role that leaders will play in the future. Under this new hierarchy, that includes an added level of non-sentient intelligence, mm-hmm, helping everybody to operate everything.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:31:55,630 ] What’s your thought there?
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:31:58,380 ] I think leaders are going to be a key element of helping people metabolize change.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:32:07,760 ] Adaptation over time.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:32:10,310 ] I think there’s kind of a futurist element when it comes to leadership that we need to tap into. Um, again, but these are skills that we we don’t teach in the MBA program necessarily. We’ve been teaching a lot of management skills and MBA programs and education, and we haven’t been talking about: How do you sense the signals around you to make game time decisions? How do you adapt, and what has changed? Management look like? At our recent event, we had a speaker talk about change.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:32:38,710 ] Metabolizing change and how that’s so different than like the linear change management structures we’ve been talking about for decades and decades.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:32:46,440 ] So it’s a lot more adaptive leadership and I think it’s. Specifically around creating equity where you’re not talking about blanket solutions but you’re learning about people, their motivations, their aspirations, and you’re adjusting support to give them what they need to do their jobs well.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:33:08,220 ] We have so much to do, don’t we?
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:33:10,320 ] Yes, we do.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:33:11,350 ] You do, but it’s funny, I think. I was.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:33:16,170 ] Mentioning my own experience in college and sort of the good, bad, and ugly of it overall. But one thing that, in the middle of college, I realized, and I I had to explain this to my dad when I got kicked out of the first college.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:33:31,390 ] Uh, thank you. That uh decisions.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:33:36,610 ] Decisions I had made. And have consequences.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:33:41,490 ] And that if I’m, because I had a negative consequence to the decisions that I’d made. See you on the mail. Down. Um.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:33:49,360 ] Understanding how to make decisions and how to weigh the consequences of decisions.
SPEAKER_2
[ 00:33:54,550 ] Mmm.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:33:55,310 ] Should probably be one of the most diligently sought after programs in any educational environment.
SPEAKER_2
[ 00:34:03,410 ] Mm hmm.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:34:04,330 ] Can exist.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:34:06,110 ] And so I would say that. My own view, to my question to you, would be that decision-making and learning how to make decisions with every tool you have, including AI and all the brilliant people, loyal people, loving people around you, is probably the path to success.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:34:28,330 ] Yeah, I also would add, and this is right in line with what you’re saying, but this idea of collective intelligence is something—nothing.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:34:38,260 ] Old Star Trek thing.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:34:41,760 ] Collective intelligence. Yes, I agree. I agree. It’s funny. We’ve become a quasi-native. AI company over at Alliance Virtual and so we have what we call Alliance Intelligence.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:34:56,310 ] and there ain’t nothing artificial about it.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:34:59,750 ] Because it’s all people-driven using AI, classic AI tools. It’s that we’re teachers of AI systems. the box.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:35:11,230 ] people using it to just do tasks or teachers of AIC. So I think that, that will be a fun evolutionary route.
SPEAKER_2
[ 00:35:18,300 ] Okay.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:35:19,060 ] So that, well, Angela, we’re running along here.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:35:22,700 ] I love chatting with you forever. So much to the table. And I know your new book is going to be fantastic. And you also have a cultural impact lab.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:35:36,620 ] meetings that you’re expanding. They’re very successful, I know, in the Chicago area. You’re expanding those other cities now?
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:35:44,940 ] Yeah yeah, we’re looking to uh bring it on the road. Um, so the culture impact lab has been a gathering of hundred leaders, particularly around workplace culture change. And we’re looking to expand it out to other cities.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:35:59,820 ] I’ve seen some of the leaders that you interact with from major global companies and every major global publication is carrying an impact on what you’re doing. So keep it up for all of us.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:36:13,650 ] Thank you.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:36:14,350 ] We’ll love to see what you do next.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:36:16,330 ] Appreciate that. Thanks, Frank.
Frank Cottle
[ 00:36:18,420 ] Take care.
Angela R. Howard
[ 00:36:19,300 ] Take care.
