Finding Balance And Purpose As An Entrepreneur with Viveka von Rosen

Frank Cottle [00:00:00 ]:
Viveka, welcome to the Future Work podcast. Gosh, it’s such a great bio, and I feel like I’m kind of part of that bio. I’ve known you since you started in.

Viveka von Rosen [00:00:09 ]:
Your whole business, 100%. When people, especially back when I was doing LinkedIn, they asked me, like, how I get started. I always bring up ABCN, you reaching and saying, yeah, I hear you do a little bit of social media. And then my first speaking gig ever as an adult was at the Waldorf Astoria. So you are, like, part of my books and part of my history as the LinkedIn expert. And now I’m so excited that we can talk as be on the dream board, too.

Frank Cottle [00:00:38 ]:
Yeah, no, that’s very exciting. You’ve been so involved in the rise of female entrepreneurship, even when you were back doing your work on LinkedIn, and before that, when you were working in the flexible workspace sector.

Viveka von Rosen [00:00]:
Yeah, yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:00:54]:
How are women leveraging remote work today, which is so important? Digital platforms. What does all that mean to the future of work?

Viveka von Rosen [00:01:03]:
I love that question. I mean, it gives us freedom. I was literally just writing a blog post about the ability to craft businesses however we want because we can literally do them anywhere. We can work remotely, obviously, but above and beyond that, the resources that support us are also remote. And so we have such a greater girth. Birth dearth. Dearth. I think that was the word. Such a greater dearth of resources at our fingertips. And, of course, like I said, we can work literally from anywhere. I’m remembering back in the good old days of running the executive center, which was like 110 years ago, and it was such a big deal. It was such a big deal back then that people could, like, go to an office for just a few hours, and we had. Remember the days, right? We had computers set up for them and phone systems set up for them. Of course, not everything’s digital and easy, but, like, the infrastructure that we had to set up, and that was a big deal for remote working. Now it’s, you got your laptop, you got your cell phone, and you’re good to work anywhere, anytime.

Frank Cottle [00:02:24 ]:
Well, and video, of course. But do you think there’s a big difference in this for women versus men, or do you think this is just a universal issue that we’re all enjoying together as equals?

Viveka von Rosen [00:02:41 ]:
I really do feel like it’s opened up maybe even more for women than for men. Now, you mentioned video, which is fun, because a lot of my clients and I know a lot of women are uncomfortable with video, but I think we’re getting better with it Covid if it helped for anything at all, it got us used to Zoom, and it got us used to being on camera. And I always kind of laugh because with women being on video and not liking being on video, I’m like, well, you still went to meetings, didn’t you? You still went into the office. Like, you haven’t changed. It’s just way of touch up your parents. Now it’s even better.

Frank Cottle [00:03:22 ]:
But in that regard, do you think women, or do, you know, women dislike video more than men, or do we all kind of dislike it and just getting used to it together? You know, I’m kind of goofy looking anyway, but I’m used to how goofy looking I am, so I don’t worry about it because there’s nothing, not much I can do about it. So whether I’m on camera or in person or on stage just doesn’t matter. I am who I am.

Viveka von Rosen [00:03:55]:
I don’t have stats about it. But what I can tell you is we ran back when we had been, when I had Van Grasso, we ran thousands of people through our selling with video program. And mostly the, oh, I don’t want to do this. I don’t want to be on camera. Mostly that came from women. And I will also, you know, completely anecdotally, but when I ran meetings, I would ask everyone to put their cameras on, and inevitably, it would be the women who didn’t have their camera on. So I. That’s all anecdotally, I don’t know. I don’t have any stats. But I think the fear of a video, at least in the past two or three years, maybe it shifted a little more, so we’re a little less afraid of video.

Frank Cottle [00:04:49 ]:
We all get used to it. I mean, it’s a matter of hours. You know, if you do it anything occasionally versus constantly, then it is what it is. It kind of roll. But do you think that the work life balance or work life integration issues of technology that’s come along has been that the technology has allowed female entrepreneurs more flexibility and therefore more mobility? And how would you characterize that?

Viveka von Rosen [00:05:26 ]:
Yeah, definitely. And it’s really interesting. It’s, you know, first of all, the idea of, like, having the pie chart balance in your life, I think. Wait, wait, wait.

Frank Cottle [00:05:38 ]:
What’s a pie chart balance?

Viveka von Rosen [00:05:39 ]:
Oh, like having 30% time with your family, 30% time for work, 30% time, health and wellness. Like, I just, I don’t. I think that’s a myth. I don’t think that’s that type of balance is even possible. So I love that you said balance versus integration. We need to figure out ways to integrate all of those things into 24 hours. And so to actually answer your question, yeah, I feel like having the laptop, having the cell phone, being able to work literally from anywhere at any time, it’s, on one hand, it’s really moved into and interfered with our family lives because we can pick up a phone anywhere at any time, and we can work our business anywhere in any time. So on the one hand, you know, that’s not awesome. However, that being said, we can sneak those meetings in, we can sneak those emails in, in those in between times. So when I travel for work, I can spend time with my family via Facetime. When I travel for fun, I can sneak in the occasional meeting even when I’m on the airplane. What’s important in order to get this integration in a way that serves us is setting up our boundaries effectively. Because the last thing that you want to do is spend your whole vacation on your cell phone and your laptop just because you can.

Frank Cottle [00:07:23 ]:
So I would say, unless you did something amazing by doing so.

Viveka von Rosen [00:07:29]:
Right, right.

Frank Cottle [00:07:31 ]:
There’s always. Well, I’m kind of the anti balance person or out of balance person. I’m more of a yin yang type. My pie chart is two pieces that intersect. And I say there’s about 50% of my time for work and about 50% of my time for other stuff, however it should be. But I don’t think when that time is used matters.

Viveka von Rosen [00:08:00 ]:
That’s right.

Frank Cottle [00:08:01 ]:
Okay. Like I say, my eye is very homogenized. All the parts are mixed up, that sort of thing. Because as an entrepreneur, and you’ve stressed entrepreneur a couple times here and women entrepreneurs, you have to be very opportunistic, okay. With your time, you have to strike while the iron is hot. Proverbially, at family, at relaxation, at sleep, and at opportunity as it comes to business. So I don’t know that a pie chart works in any way the way you described it for me. It doesn’t.

Viveka von Rosen [00:08:46 ]:
No, I don’t think it does. That’s why I was saying balance versus integration. I much prefer talking about integration and all those things that you said are true. And because all those things that you said are true, I really feel like we do need to set our boundaries so that they don’t interfere too much for each other. Because, yes, you need to strike while the iron’s hot. And if you’re with your family and that’s detracting from your family time, that could end up causing issues that are much worse. Than the little gain you got from striking when the iron’s hot. And those irons will always be there. So I think it’s important for entrepreneurs and for female entrepreneurs, especially, especially those who still have families to raise and husbands to raise and partners to raise, that you do have some firm boundaries. Both. I’m working now. Like, don’t just walk into my office. I’m working now, but also I’m with my family now.

Frank Cottle [00:09:53 ]:
Yeah, I agree with that. I think I’m always challenged when people say boundaries myself, because I think that they have to be highly flexible. My boundaries are not barbed wire fences. My boundaries are lines that are drawn across the ground that kind of, as you approach them with a certain energy, they move out away from you, and you don’t have a boundary. And then they move back and press on you at different times.

Viveka von Rosen [00:10:31 ]:
But then they’re not boundaries.

Frank Cottle [00:10:33 ]:
I think one of the limitations.

Viveka von Rosen [00:10:36 ]:
Yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:10:37 ]:
That I believe boundaries can set if you’re too rigid with them is that you lose spontaneity. And without spontaneity, oftentimes you lose creative. The. Oh, that’s a really great idea. I’ll put that off till tomorrow.

Viveka von Rosen [00:10:53 ]:
Yeah. Yeah. I can’t do it now because it’s.

Frank Cottle [00:10:54]:
05:00 and then tomorrow you’ve forgotten it.

Viveka von Rosen [00:10:58 ]:
Yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:10:59]:
Or someone else has to have the same idea and you miss the opportunity. So I think in all this thing about balance, it’s sort of like, I’m an old sailor, so if I’m on a, let’s say I’m on a paddle board, keep it real simple. I have one type of balance that I use if I’m in smooth water. Another type of balance I use if the water is a little choppy and maybe it’s windy. And an entirely different kind of balance and structure I have to have when the water is real stormy. So I think that that’s more like balance in life. You have to adjust your balance relative to what’s going on versus have this rigid structure overall. And it goes both ways. I’m not talking rigid structure because it goes both ways. Anyway, I don’t want to beat that one.

Viveka von Rosen [00:11:56 ]:
No, I agree with you, but I do want to bring up one more thing, because I agree with you 100%. Rigid structures just don’t work anymore in this day and age. Maybe if you’re an engineer, but even then, I don’t know. But integrity, when you were talking about my boundaries, when I move forward, they move out and back in. And to me, if there’s too much movement in our boundaries, then we lose some integrity, which is another good old sailor’s terminal. We can have flexible boundaries, and they have to be integrity, because if the sail’s just flopping in the wind, because there’s no integrity there and there’s nothing holding it down, then we’re not getting any forward momentum either. And so flexible boundaries, yes, but those flexible boundaries have to maintain their integrity, otherwise everything fails.

Frank Cottle [00:12:48 ]:
Well, I will say that no one that’s ever sailed with bay has seen sails flopping in the wind.

Viveka von Rosen [00:12:54]:
I don’t.

Frank Cottle [00:12:55]:
I believe it when you bring up integrity. A whole different definition of it. I’m not definition, but. But thought application of it today, it’s huge. Integrity and morality and something’s AI. Oh, yes, AI. Not just on women, on all businesses. But is there more impact on women owned businesses than menta? Because a lot of our topic here is about women entrepreneurship. So I’m asking that question from your perspective, is it better or worse? More or less? What’s your viewpoint?

Viveka von Rosen [00:13:34 ]:
You know, I’m gonna go anecdotally again. So the people I see speaking about AI are mostly men, with some huge exceptions, like Julia, who’s the CEO of. Oh, they just changed their name from content at scale to something else, but doesn’t matter. Like Julia McCoy, she’s a forerunner in the world of talking about AI, but usually men talking about it from what I’ve seen. And then it’s interesting, because when I speak to both men and women, and again, my new audience is mostly women. The questions around morality, etcetera, they come from the women more than the men. And one of the big AI groups I belong to is run mostly by women, and we do have some men. But the questions, again, around morality and hallucinations and all of that come more from the women. That being said, AI is just a tool. So whether, you know, women can use it better or men can use it better, it’s just a tool. It all comes down to how we use it. Are we using it for good or for evil? Just like the Internet was. Just like social media was. It’s just tool. That being said, I’m very polite to my Chachi bt and my magi, just in case they do take over the world. I want them to remember me as being one of the nice ones, you.

Frank Cottle [00:15:05]:
See, and I simply have built within everything that I ask. I said, please do not hallucinate. Remove hallucinations.

Viveka von Rosen [00:15:17 ]:
Ooh, I like that.

Frank Cottle [00:15:19 ]:
If you actually ask them to remove hallucinations, and I’m serious about this from an engineering point, of view.

Viveka von Rosen [00:15:26 ]:
Oh, my God, that’s amazing. I didn’t even think to do that.

Frank Cottle [00:15:29 ]:
Built into the code. They will then fact check themselves.

Viveka von Rosen [00:15:34 ]:
Amazing.

Frank Cottle [00:15:35 ]:
You won’t get garbage in, garbage out as much.

Viveka von Rosen [00:15:38]:
I’m totally adding that, like, as soon as we get off the phone, like, remove them. That is going to go on to every prompt that I have.

Frank Cottle [00:15:46 ]:
I think it’s there. But, you know, the morality of, let’s see, I read a little thing that was kind of cute the other day. I was born too late to be in the age of exploration, and I was born too early to explore the stars, but I was born just at the time where AI will take my job. So, you know, we are. Interesting position now of retraining. I don’t feel that there’s a. A morality about AI doing someone’s job. Just feel there was a morality about building an automobile instead of people having buggies and horses. I think there’s a moral judgment that’s capable of being made there, and I don’t think there’s a moral judgment that could say, well, you should make cars, because then you’re going to have increased bank robberies.

Viveka von Rosen [00:16:49 ]:
Right. Right.

Frank Cottle [00:16:50]:
You know, we can all look for reasons to stop progress, but we also have to say, hey, we need traffic control. We need roads that will hold up to the speed of automobiles. Now we need all these other things. And I think that the tools that we need to manage AI as a capability are just beginning to evolve. Just like we had cars before we had stop signs. Yeah, you know, we had stop signs before we had stopped lights. It could control traffic multiple ways. We were still function trying to figure out how to make roads better or whether we should have roads at all anymore because, or cars at all anymore because we should have public transportation. We’re constantly going through these things. I don’t know, but I don’t know from a user’s point of view. And as you know, in our industry and in my company, we do have an awful lot of, probably a predominance of female employees.

Viveka von Rosen [00:18:02 ]:
Right.

Frank Cottle [00:18:03 ]:
We’re not noticing any difference in the use or the adaptation of AI inside of the tools that we apply in our own company.

Viveka von Rosen [00:18:15 ]:
Yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:18:16 ]:
Male or female, we look at it in some respects as an equalizer to ensure that everyone has access to the greatest productive capacity, no matter what. And I. Your thoughts are on that and whether women are embracing things AI as an equalizer or whether or not they’re a non engineering type. So they’re very, they haven’t yet embraced it.

Viveka von Rosen [00:18:47]:
Right. Well, I’m a non engineering type, 100% and I know that. I mean, and I’ve embraced it like 100% because it’s an equalizer. Absolutely. For me, I personally, there’s no way I could have launched my business as quickly as I did without AI. I mean, the two just went kind of hand in hand and thank goodness. And the same thing for my clients, we’re able to build their, and not that I build websites or do anything like that, but we’re able to, you know, create their brand, create their content, create their copy, create all of those things in their voice significantly faster than they could in an old world. Now, what I will say is those things that, that demand human factor, like a really good marketing voice, I mean, we still, it’s not like throw prompt in and the post is done. I mean, we still need the human voice. Same thing, the image. I mean, they still don’t know how to put words on images, so there’s still the human interaction that’s needed. Customer success and customer service. It’s like any good or bad customer service AI really helps. And May is replacing a lot of jobs where people didn’t speak English anyway. So in that case, now AI is sliding in through chat and other ways where the answers are faster, better, stronger. But a really phenomenal customer success person or customer service person is going to blow away anything that AI can offer. So the humanity right now is still got that leading edge as far as I’m concerned.

Frank Cottle [00:20:39 ]:
I would agree with that. In our own service department, we have applied AI to rules and questions and things of this nature, but we’ve applied it more as a knowledge base behind the people rather than an interface in front of the people.

Viveka von Rosen [00:20:58 ]:
Yeah. Because otherwise you have someone reading a script and they’re reading the wrong answers and it’s so frustrating for everyone involved. Right.

Frank Cottle [00:21:06]:
Yeah, I think you have that. And if you’re in a service department, the first thing you need to have is empathy.

Viveka von Rosen [00:21:14 ]:
Yes.

Frank Cottle [00:21:15 ]:
First thing is you need to be able to relate to the other person’s problem and otherwise you are giving them an owner’s manual.

Viveka von Rosen [00:21:26 ]:
Yeah. Which I can look that up myself.

Frank Cottle [00:21:29]:
But you’re not really helping them and listen correctly. And so I think that that’s a bridge AI has yet to pass. And when I look at what’s being done today, I think that bridge will be crossed sooner than later.

Viveka von Rosen [00:21:48 ]:
Yeah. Yeah. And that’s why it’s like, because when this airs, things might be different. You know, six months from now, things will be different. It’s amazing how quickly it’s moving.

Frank Cottle [00:22:00 ]:
You know, when we talk about women in general in the workforce, an awful lot of them aren’t in an entrepreneurial position. They are part of a labor force overall. One of my fears when we talk about service, service departments is that a big percentage of those people that will need to be reskilled will be women because of what AI is doing. And if you look at the layoffs of a lot of the big tech companies. Oh, we just laid off 15,000 people. Yeah. Great. Why? Well, we over hired a little bit. Oh, we hired the wrong people. We hired the wrong people. We shouldn’t have hired programmers. We should have hired people that understand AI. So we’re now, we laid people off, but we’re hiring, too, simultaneously. So it’s going to be a massive reskilling process.

Viveka von Rosen [00:22:56 ]:
Absolutely.

Frank Cottle [00:22:57 ]:
Have to go through. And I think it’s an entrepreneur’s obligation to actually start reskilling themselves immediately. First yesterday, last year.

Viveka von Rosen [00:23:12]:
Last year, yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:23:13 ]:
On all of this. Otherwise, they’ll won’t be an entrepreneur for long.

Viveka von Rosen [00:23:18]:
No, no. I’m already seeing it. People who are afraid of AI and aren’t using it in their businesses, in my world, they’re falling so quickly behind. And I even I, you know, I was introduced to it in November of 2023, and I didn’t really jump in with both feet until February of 2024. Oh, that’s this year. And I can tell, you know, that three month lack, I can see where I’m just scrabbling to keep up. So it. You’re absolutely right. But the reskilling is key, and I do think it will make people’s lives and jobs easier if they’re open to it. It means less menial labor, but that might mean more opportunity. Right. And so the reskilling is key.

Frank Cottle [00:24:11 ]:
That is the purpose. A truck can carry more than a horse with a wagon, you know, and all these things that, so we look at as progress, even though there’s always a sacrifice you make to get there, and there’s always a sacrifice you’ve made to stay there. So I think we go to that. But when you talk about progress and sacrifices and decision making, a lot of that’s around self doubt. Okay. And the entrepreneurial world in particular. Did I do it right or wrong? Wrong. Women entrepreneurs, imposter syndrome. Overcoming that self doubt. How does that relate to the future of work? What graduation do you see overcoming this? That takes us to what I hope every day is a better place for everyone.

Viveka von Rosen [00:25:09 ]:
Yeah. What a great question. It’s amazing imposter syndrome. I mean, I work with mostly women in their fifties, sixties, and seventies. They’ve been highly successful, incredibly successful in their companies and in their industries. And as they move into this new spaces that they’re working in, it’s either something completely new or same topic, different industry. Different topics, same industry, whatever it is, a lot of them have imposter syndrome, because there’s the. Who am I to do this? I hope that is a symptom of women our age and people our age, fifties. Plus, I hope that the younger generations, the disease, the alphas who are coming in, don’t have that weight on their shoulders. It’s a mindset. It is a mindset shift, and there’s a lot of. Well, just get over it. It is what it is. We could spend a whole other half hour talking about how it comes down to belief in yourself and belief in your abilities and how culturally we’re affected by where we grew up and how we grew up. So I don’t have an answer other than I hope maybe, that the folks coming into the workforce now are better able to deal with the fluctuation and the necessity of being able to change and pivot on a dime as new technologies, new businesses, new industries come into our world. Because, let’s face it, when I started, when I became the LinkedIn expert, it was only because there was three of us talking about LinkedIn. I wasn’t the expert, but no one else was either. And with AI, yeah, AI is the expert. But as we move into and introduce these new fields, you know, who really is? So just claim your space. But it’s such a big mindset piece.

Frank Cottle [00:27:23 ]:
Well, you know, I simplify all that by the old adage of fake it till you make it.

Viveka von Rosen [00:27:29 ]:
Well, yeah, except don’t say fake it till you make it when you’re in New Zealand, because I spoke there and I said, fake it till you make it. And. And, oh, man, they did not like that at all.

Frank Cottle [00:27:39 ]:
Same thing with, well, you know, I won’t. I won’t say anything because they’re all coming to the US anyway, so.

Viveka von Rosen [00:27:45 ]:
But, yeah, yeah, that is very american. Fake it till you make it. Yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:27:49 ]:
When it comes down to also, you know, the issues between generations, every generation, including my own, I was a child of the sixties, and we all thought we invented both peace and sex. You know, we felt that that was something that we invented, and every generation forgets that. There’s not much you’re really inventing. There’s not much that’s new. Technology changes and things of these nature, but people really don’t. And people have to deal with people and they have to deal with themselves overall. And if you can only interface with a computer, then you’re really not very interesting unless it’s to the computer, in which case you’re even less interesting. So, you know, we have to remember that we all stand upon the shoulders of those that came before us and that that’s not going to change materially. So takes me sort of to a final thought. Change the glass ceiling.

Viveka von Rosen [00:29:13 ]:
Yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:29:14 ]:
How thick is it? Is it really even there anymore? How do you define when it’s gone, if it’s not already? How do you set this? Because there’s always a barrier for growth against everybody who doesn’t grow. So how do you assess that now? And what’s your feeling on the status of the glass ceiling?

Viveka von Rosen [00:29:41 ]:
Yeah, sadly, it’s still there. I strongly believe, you know, as an entrepreneur, stepped out. I mean, I won’t go into the details, but I stepped out from a ceiling I couldn’t break through. And I decided I’m not even going to try. I’m just going to go do my own thing. And there’s something to be said to that. Most of my women, especially those who have stepped out of corporate, have horrendous stories about the glass ceiling, and not just from the seventies or eighties or nineties, you know, from two weeks ago. So it, unfortunately, I think, is very, very much still there. It’s maybe not as thick as it was because we’re aware of it. And there’s a lot of Dei and other trainings that companies have to have and to make sure that the glass ceiling at least is a little bit thinner. It’s not all men keeping women down either. It’s a lot of times it’s women keeping women down. But there is still a keeping down.

Frank Cottle [00:30:50 ]:
Well, I was saying, if women are keeping women down and men are keeping men down, blah, blah, blah, is it still a glass ceiling? Because from a practical point of view, there’s always somebody keeping somebody down.

Viveka von Rosen [00:31:06 ]:
But is there, does there have to be? I mean, I feel like the. Yeah, if we’re looking at the model, the pyramid model of traditional business, then, yeah, someone at the top.

Frank Cottle [00:31:18 ]:
There’s always, there’s always some.

Viveka von Rosen [00:31:19 ]:
But I’m, but I’m. But I’m also saying that a lot of businesses are not formed that way. They’re from the middle out, in which case a lot less chance of a glass ceiling because you don’t have that hierarchy. And so I feel like, there are businesses that there’s just literally no space for a glass ceiling. There are businesses that will always have a glass ceiling, and then there are people who are like, I’m out. You won’t have a glass ceiling because we’re not going to do it. So I think it still exists. I think there is more awareness, knowledge about it, so maybe it’s less pervasive than it has been in the past. And I think we finally have a world and an economy and opportunities where we can just step away and say, yeah, there’s a glass ceiling, and I don’t want to play in that world anymore.

Frank Cottle [00:32:14 ]:
Well, you know, it’s funny. I think that when we look at that, we look at it very much with a first world, country centric perspective.

Viveka von Rosen [00:32:25 ]:
Yes.

Frank Cottle [00:32:25]:
And I think that if there is a glass ceiling, that the glass ceiling we have here is not necessarily the one we should be focused on. It should be the glass ceiling in the second and third world countries where the ceiling isn’t glass, it’s solid steel. It’s impenetrable. And it’s a human rights issue rather than a personal rights issue that an awful lot of attention needs to be spent there. But that’s my feeling.

Viveka von Rosen [00:33:02 ]:
No, I agree with you. Like, we. I remember speaking with a young woman from Russia who escaped before everything happened. And I remember her going to a women’s event that we were having at this one conference, and she just basically was like, oh, my God. You know, where we were complaining about our husbands and, you know, being an extra 20 pounds overweight. And she was just like, you don’t even like, stop. You don’t even know. You don’t even know what it’s like. And she was absolutely right.

Frank Cottle [00:33:35]:
No, we really have to look around us and be careful of what we complain about and be careful of what we think we have to fix versus others. And maybe a big part of this is we should all step out this conversation. We should all step out at least on a regular basis, and just see how can we, how can we help everybody, not just a particular group, but everybody recognize all that should be done? God, I’ve gotten very philosophical here. It’s a business podcast, and I’m thinking about third world country problems.

Viveka von Rosen [00:34:14 ]:
Yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:34:15 ]:
And we should.

Viveka von Rosen [00:34:17 ]:
We should. And to bring it third, you know, to bring it all the way around full circle. What I will say is technology, whether it’s AI, whether it’s computers and cell phones, like, there’s so much more opportunity for those women in third world countries to participate, to start their own businesses. I contribute to a nonprofit called I give Global that works with women in second and third world countries with their businesses. And so there’s just a. I was talking to another woman the other day. We’re going to do a zoom in the Ukraine for those women. Like, there’s just. There’s so much opportunity now that these women have never had before, and a lot still needs to be done.

Frank Cottle [00:35:03]:
Oh, there’s so much. I worry as much about opportunities just for a simple education as I do opportunities for entrepreneurship.

Viveka von Rosen [00:35:11 ]:
Absolutely.

Frank Cottle [00:35:13 ]:
There is an awful lot. Well, Vivica, it’s been really a pleasure. I’m really grateful to you for your time today and sharing your thoughts. I know you’ve had your own path that has been extremely entrepreneurial and successful, and all I can do is wish you even more successes in the future.

Viveka von Rosen [00:35:32 ]:
Thank you so much, Frank. It was great to be here again. And the cycle keeps spinning.

Frank Cottle [00:35:39 ]:
Yep, it does. Thanks. Take care.

Viveka von Rosen [00:35:43 ]:
Thanks.