The Technology Wave In The Service Industry | Joseph Pascaretta COO at WORKWAVE

Frank Cottle [00:01:10]:
Joseph, welcome to the Future of Work podcast today, looking forward to our chat about changes in the way that youth is embracing their job choices. I think your background at Duna Bradstreet, certainly your background at work wave and your multiple awards, Ernst and Young Entrepreneur of the year selected by the White House as a Technology of the year leader in 2012, quite a background. First, Joseph, if we could, when we think of the service industry, what are you really talking about? How should we classify the service industry for our guests today?

Joseph Pascaretta [00:01:57]:
Yeah, so Frank, first of all, thank you for having me. It’s a privilege to be here and I’m a huge fan of you and what you’re doing in the market, given we have multi generations, five generations, not only of employees and folks in the services workspace, but also five generations of buyers and consumers, whether they’re enterprise mid market. B, two b b two c b two b, two c. So it’s a privilege to be here and I honor your commitment and what you’re doing. So thank you for having me. When I think of the services industry, having run and owned and operated a lawn and landscape business in Detroit, Michigan, I think, and I look at the work wave customer base and who we service, which is all across the board, at a global level, services is really anybody that is working with businesses, consumers operating to some capacity, whether it’s buying and selling products, whether it’s doing some sort of services, field service work in their business, in their homes, meeting at a mutual site. It’s something of the nature of doing something for somebody else. And when you think of it, it may include hardware to the tune of, you think h vac, you think furnaces and things of that nature all the way through. That’s the way I think of the services based business and it generally. Oh, go ahead, Frank.

Frank Cottle [00:03:44]:
I’m just going to say a good example might be I just moved from California to Texas, and I had a new house in a new neighborhood, and I needed a plumber, an electrician, a pool guy, a landscaper. Sadly, because I’m in Texas and we get wild weather, I needed a roofer. And so what I considered, and I’ve historically referred to as the tradesmen, that is a massive workforce everywhere in the world. Everywhere in the world. And that’s included, that’s all included with your definition of the service industry. Is that correct?

Joseph Pascaretta [00:04:28 ]:
That is correct.

Frank Cottle [00:04:29]:
Okay. Then I went to. I’ll use myself as an example. I went to a great. I had a list from the realtor we bought the house from, and they said, well, this is the best VHC company, heating, ventilation, and air conditioning company in the region. You should use them. And I did, and boy, were they sharp. The guy was out here. He did everything he was supposed to do, blah, blah, blah. And I got a bill within 30 minutes. I was shocked. Fully itemized, fully detailed, fully laid out, etcetera, for the work. And he was using a tablet when he was doing the work. That was obviously connected to a system of some sort. And I’m noticing about half the traits people that I deal with now have such a system, and the other half are just Texas good old boys getting the job done, and you get a bill two or three weeks later. But they’re great tradespeople on both ends of the spectrum. I’m seeing quality work. How do you see the trending going this way? And if it is a tech edge, one thing I will say, I noticed on the first company, I dealt with 30 somethings, and on the second company, I dealt with 50 somethings. And I’m wondering what that trend is that you’re seeing going on in business and in the world today.

Joseph Pascaretta [00:06:14 ]:
Yeah. So, Frank, we’re seeing a tremendous shift from younger generations focused on going towards traditional jobs and roles to going towards the services, the trades, and, you know, at work wave here, you know, over 10,000 customers. You know, we’re seeing, majority of our customer base are you know, multi generational families, businesses. So the younger generations are entering, but we’re seeing a new emergence of those that may want to go to college, start their own business, or get into the trades. That is, a substantial portion of that is expected to grow over the next three to five years. We believe that the services and the younger generations are getting excited about the services industry because, particularly Gen Z, because of the shift towards rising costs, higher education, more desire for stable, hands on career, that offer really rewarding. I complete a job, we complete something. There’s something tangible there. But the younger generations also offer a younger perspective on interactions. Like you said, whether it may be interactions with the customer, using technology, using AI. We believe that the services industry is starting to appeal more to these younger generations, to these new entrants that may have pursued a four year degree or gone into large corporate business. We’re seeing that in every way, shape and form in all the industries that we serve. Technology adoption is one of those key elements. You look at pest control, for example. They’re leveraging AI Iot in the field to remotely monitor pest control. Whether it’s in an addict, where an Internet device may not exist, but satellite technology can beam to it all the way through to geo tracking and dynamically routing businesses, or those that are in trucks driving around, going to service a customer and making them the most efficient. We’re starting to see all that technology be the new standard and the new norm. Whereas three to five years ago, even pre Covid, these were things that were very heavily manual. Whether it’s picking up a phone, whether it’s dispatching through communication devices all the way through to very manual paper based systems. We’re starting to see the new norm in services to be digital first. Leveraging automation technologies like AI, that’s getting these younger generations excited about it not being what they were thinking it was, which was a manual. I have to show up in a home or a business. It’s a very exciting thing. You can run your own business, you can be your own boss, and it’s a very rewarding career field. And we’re seeing that be really the premise of this drive of these younger generations getting more involved.

Frank Cottle [00:09:35 ]:
Not to be argumentative, but you still got to show up, clear the toilet. So you’re not escaping the manual work, in my opinion, unless you can correct that. What you are doing, though, is you’re escaping a lot of the, what used to be paperwork drudgery at the back end of the office, which frees you up to spend more time in the field and be more effective. And I get that from a trending point of view. We always talk about Gen Z, this, millennial that, etcetera. There’s a shift in a lot of press right now around colleges, trade schools versus colleges, four year degree, the value of it, all those sorts of things that are being challenged right now, not just their worth in the field, but the cost value of them. What percentage of youth, if you will, or Gen Z do you see? Said, I’d rather build my career and own a plumbing company than work in an investment bank.

Joseph Pascaretta [00:10:56 ]:
So I think, to your point, around the rising costs of higher education has played a significant impact in a number of surveys and a number of studies out there. It’s a huge factor in any decision going into colleges. But when you think about the Gen Z, if we just focus on them, there’s been several studies around over 30% are considering entering the trades. And really this is around opportunities. And some of the fields that I mentioned, which was h vac, plumbing, you think about those. But also when you think about field services, it’s also healthcare, finance and education. There’s certain other field services components around there, but we’re seeing about 30% of those Gen Zers truly consider it as an opportunity. And there was a study done in the last year around, why do they make that decision? What is getting them excited? And it’s really that idea of purpose driven work being what I’m doing. Is it impactful as much as it is rewarding around compensation, monetary compensation, and that flexibility? But it’s purpose driven work. And there were a few studies out there that talked about Gen Z, for example, that over 80% of them were interested in aligning that purpose driven work with their personal ethics. So it’s this idea of taking, does this give me satisfaction? But does this also jive with my personal ethics as to why I’m here on the planet, why I’m living my life, which is intertwining, in my opinion, more so the idea of rewarding compensation and getting the job done with also, why do you serve a purpose in this world that we live in?

Frank Cottle [00:13:01 ]:
Well, you know, it’s funny, because my first two major career elements were brokerage in the yachting industry. And then after exiting that position into the investment banking world, and I spent a couple years in that environment, and I found out I hated it. I didn’t like that I was always manipulating a transaction. And so I left that environment because I wanted to build things, physical things. So I started building commercial office buildings. And I think that a lot of people like that I always enjoyed when I was young, getting college jobs and things, of that whenever I could build something and I could walk past it the next day or the week and say, hey, I did that, I found a big satisfaction in that. I also realized that that paid better than flipping burgers and it wasn’t as much of a rat race overall. So I get that satisfaction. In fact, a friend of mine who was in the real estate industry, in the flexible service industry, very successful for many, many years, he actually quit and gave off his company to another family member and started a plumbing company. And it was like a shock in life. Why did you do that? Well, people are always going to need plumbers, they’re not always going to need real estate. And it was like this real simple approach to the way he wanted to do business. And he took a very sophisticated business mind from another industry and applied it to the trades and was quite successful. So I think the trades have changed overall, and that’s a major shift that we’re seeing. How does it relate to the future of work? How does it relate to, are we going to see all trades people and no bankers? Are we going to see everybody shifting towards a mentality of building things or fixing things overall? Do you consider technology a technologist, a programmer, a developer, a trades person, or is that an intellectual job? Or is that really a job aligned to any traditional trade?

Joseph Pascaretta [00:15:44 ]:
You know, traditionally when you think about a developer or somebody in technology, that was always considered more enterprise, more corporate, more Wall street versus a, you know, a mom and pop main street.

Frank Cottle [00:15:58]:
And I think, think of all the small web companies, all the small development companies that are out there seeking to do business, maintenance on technical equipment, all the network maintenance, network management, there are a gazillion of those that are all small companies, one to five person, one to ten person companies. So I would argue that technology isn’t necessarily only enterprise.

Joseph Pascaretta [00:16:35]:
Yeah, it’s a fair point, Frank. When you think about those type of roles supporting businesses, you’re exactly right. There are the gig economy workers. There are what I would consider more the small and micro businesses, self employed. Having run Dunn and Bradstreet small business for years before, during and after Covid, we saw the number of small businesses which included those small micro and gig, we saw that explode from about 27 million to right now over 33 million. So there are those supporting it. I think when a lot of folks even go into a four year degree and to focus on computer programming, for example, they think they should get a job in a larger entity. What we’re seeing is lawn and landscape businesses. I’ll focus on that given my background there. They are hiring CIO’s, they are hiring ctos, where traditionally that was not a thing in these businesses. And it’s fascinating to watch this. It’s not only the largest companies in the United States and in the world, but it’s the mid market companies. And because everybody understands the importance of data driven decision making and data driven operations management, like we talked about, route optimization, leveraging AI, these mid market and larger companies are understanding that. And it’s fascinating to watch the smaller businesses, those that are maybe ten employees to 100 employees, they’re also getting the same treatment because larger and larger software companies, SaaS companies similar to workwave, are also offering tools and utilities for them to leverage as well. But in order to properly support those utilities, you need folks internally to help optimize, to help run the business. And so we’re seeing many folks that even that do choose to go to four year institutions to get a computer science degree or whatever it may be, they still go to these companies because it is rewarding and because we’re taking an industry that has historically been a bit more monolithic than others, and we’re bringing it into the modern age of leveraging technology as a standard. And that’s what got me so excited, for example, in coming in, having been a landscape business, when we were running the business, we were using paper, we were using everything you can imagine. But what we did was we changed our approach. And it was such a differentiator at the time, and it was very easy to do. It was accepting credit cards, it was doing things in a different way where the customer were able to see the benefit of doing business with my business versus another business.

Frank Cottle [00:19:26 ]:
Well, you know, it’s interesting, we have a pool in the backyard, and the pool guides, we looked at it and they said, well, you know, because it’s an older home, very classic home. And they said, well, we think it’d be a good idea to resurface the pool. And I thought, well, okay, well, give me a bid. They gave me a bid and I went, whoa, really? It’s just a pool. So they gave me this bid and they said, oh, but we’d be happy to finance it for you. And I went, well, I don’t like that. I don’t need that. But I, that was an interesting phenomena from a trades company to have an internal financing mechanism so that they could expand their business overall and help me or someone like me maintain their equipment and their pool and things of that nature at a higher level. I worry that people get trapped into buying too much, as I always do, with any kind of credit. That’s just a phenomenon that I’m seeing now that I have never seen before. And as we look towards the future, do you believe that financing of trades work is going to become an important element? And if that drives another profit center for the trades overall by gaining more business, or does it drive an additional revenue center by giving them an opportunity to benefit from the fees involved in the financing?

Joseph Pascaretta [00:20:58 ]:
Yeah, absolutely. So that’s one of the critical areas of when you think about the technology space, which we’ve been talking about, leveraging technology, AI, but then there’s the fintech space, this idea of financial services that empower, whether they’re a small and micro business, medium size or large enterprise, we are seeing a massive trend towards the ability of flexible payments. The idea that the business itself does not have to be the bank or does not have to be the financial institution. So it’s leveraging these new fintech technologies and tools to make it easy to transact. Hey, you want a new h vac, you want a new landscape design in your home, and that may be out of reach in paying cash, which is the traditional way. Let’s leverage a financing arm, let’s leverage credit card, let’s leverage all these other things and make it easy and flexible. Now, whether or not that homeowner can actually support making those payments to the credit card or the financial, the idea of it is, in having run a business myself, you don’t want to be the bank, you want to leverage these new tools and capabilities. And the beauty of that is there’s been a lot of loan programs, a lot of different fintech programs that offer very flexible payments that make it easy, that make it easy for both sides, both the customer, whether it’s a B, two B, two C, or the business itself, in being able to really run and operate a business that says, yes, I’m the customer, I want to buy this, make it easy for me to do it. Don’t make it where I have to spend entire cash doing it, write a check or do an Ach transaction, make it easy for me, meet me in the middle on this. And that’s been a huge trend we’ve been seeing, even at work wave in our business. We’ve been seeing an explosive trend in that all of those different types of businesses have been requesting it. So it’s more than 50% increase year over year. And we don’t see that slowing down, especially as the financial markets and the geopolitical landscape is, is where it’s at. We see that continuing to increase and offering that flexibility to your customer, whether they’re big business, medium business, or even a consumer. We see that being such a tremendous trend that it is almost a standard nowadays to be an offering flexible fintech terms.

Frank Cottle [00:23:33 ]:
Well, if we can. Now, I think that’s an important growth factor in all industries. If you look at it. Where would the automotive industry be if they didn’t have financing? So as we look at household, not necessarily repairs, but improvements from a lot of these companies without financing, I don’t think we’d see nearly as much activity. That kind of goes without saying. But come back around to the work life choices and the educational choices that we’re seeing with the current generation and what percentage of increase, if you know it. If you’re not, by the way, just make it up, it’ll be fine. No, if you know it, that trade schools have increased over the last five or ten years from an enrollment point of view, versus four year colleges, which a lot of particularly smaller liberal arts schools are really struggling to get students to apply and pay the fees that it costs to get a liberal arts education anymore. Is a liberal arts education, in your view, even worth anything anymore? That’s a whole other topic. But really, when it comes to decisions on trades, and I will say that if I were to make a decision today on a career, I would become a contractor. I would build either large real estate development along the residential or the commercial side. I understand it. I know where the money is. And about one in five of my neighbors in a very nice neighborhood are all very successful contractors. Not all of them started with the college degrees either. If one of them is the most successful, just started as a framer and they built so with just native intelligence and a lot of effort. He’s got one of the nicest Ferrari collections, by the way, that I’ve seen as well. So, you know, he’s a very successful fellow. You know, it’s sort of like Bill Gates started Microsoft in the garage after being dropping out of college. All these things come about in our own industry. The 10,000 pound gorilla company is a IWG international workplace group. And the CEO, Mark Dixon, also dropped out at school early and has become fabulously successful. I was kicked out of college, my second, my first one. Fortunately, I continued on. So education relative to what’s going on is crazy right now.

Joseph Pascaretta [00:26:27 ]:
It truly is. And you know, when I ran the business it was fascinating. You know, I started my career in law and landscape, running the business in high school and then into college, which was an interesting transition. And I actually, you know, a fun fact was I maintained my high school while I was in the high school. So it was kind of fun to be in high school and you, you know, have a crew outside and, you know, that was a lot of fun. But moving into college, the university that I went to for undergrad was University of Michigan, which was a very well known institution for sending, what I would say, kids, I used to say sending kids to Wall street, sending kids to a lot of the institutions that don’t exist post the great Recession. And they were very proud of it. And coming in as an entrepreneur, they made it very difficult for me to run my landscape business, which was over 100 ftes at the time, approximately an hour north of Ann Arbor, Michigan. And they made it very, very, very difficult, is the only way I could describe it. It was not fit into how they educate their students. And the university, by the end of my tenure there, realized, wait a minute, we need to be entrepreneurial, driven. And I made the case to the board of trustees that a lot of the folks that funded this institution were entrepreneurs themselves, major entrepreneurs, billionaires. So the university and I reconciled at the end of my tenure there. The idea of it was very frustrating as a young entrepreneur who was trying to run a field service business, a business with over 100 ftes and making good on the local economy, donating money, doing what we were doing. And they made it nearly impossible to do both, which was very sad. And so when I look, I’m a huge advocate of young entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs that are in high school, have a driver’s license, start a business, do what you got to do, because guess what? When you’re young, you can make mistakes and people give you a bit of forgiveness. And I will tell you, we made more mistakes. I mean, between my high school and the large properties we would manage, we made more mistakes. But people give you a second chance because they said, you know what? Look, that person’s young, but I’m going to give them a shot. I’m going to give them a shot at doing it. They’re waking up, six in the morning, they’re at my property, they’re working hard. There was nothing like that. And I will tell you as a person who’s now the coo of, you know, a $250 million plus business, it was the best career foundation ever.

Frank Cottle [00:29:13 ]:
Totally agree with that. It is funny, I mentioned I was in the brokerage business. So I was a 20 something competing against 50 somethings, which is tough. And my whole ploy, if you want to call it that, was the nice young man that you wanted to help out. You know, just be really putting the extra hours, but don’t try and outdo everybody. Just be the nice young kid that everybody wants to give a break to. And that really is that second chance, or the first chance really can come that way. Overall, and I agree with it, I think your comment is valid. A traditional four year college, whether it’s University of Michigan that you attended or most, they teach you to go work for somebody else and a trade school or just being a dropout, you do have to learn to work for yourself. And once you’ve learned that and built a company, even a small company, you really, I think, have a greater sense of contribution to your community, to what’s going on around you oftentimes. And just, just having a job at a financial institution or a big tech company or any large company where you’re a cog in the proverbial wheel. Now, I’m a cereal entrepreneur, so I naturally going to feel that way. And I come from a farming and ranching family, which are the original serial entrepreneurs of the world, farmers. So, you know, I get that. But I really think that the trend towards learning the trades is got to be massive right now because there’s more of it, there’s a shortage of that, and there’s no shortage of coders, but there is a shortage of really skilled people that understand how to keep things running, how to build things.

Joseph Pascaretta [00:31:15 ]:
We believe that’s a great point. The reality is the number of what I would consider skilled trade jobs between 2020 and 2030 are projected to grow in excess of 10%, which is one of the only industries out there where you’re seeing that double digit growth. So that’s about a million new jobs alone in the United States alone, let alone worldwide. When you start thinking about the pay, for example, which is a very important piece of, you know, why younger people go to college, they want to get as high a pay as they can get. We’ve already seen a over $10,000 increase. When you think about electricians, plumbers, h vac technicians, just because of the shortage that existed before COVID and now into today, we’ve seen a $10,000 average salary increase alone. And we think that’s only going to continue just because they can command a higher.

Frank Cottle [00:32:17 ]:
Oh, yeah, I mentioned I live in Texas, and it’s warm right now. And if your h vac is down. You’re going to pay for it. You’re going to pay and you’re happy to do so. So there’s no question about it. The other thing that I think is interesting about the services or the trades is technology doesn’t understand, doesn’t, doesn’t know borders. In other words, I can hire a technologist in India or Ukraine or Mexico just as easily as I can hire someone in California or Texas or Michigan. So when I’m paying that person, I’m paying an individual who’s not going to contribute to my neighborhood at all. When I pay a trades person, they live within an hour of me, or they can’t do business. Now, maybe a large company that’s publicly owned even, but the actual person that’s doing the work is local and contributes more to my local economy. And I don’t know how much attention is paid to that. But if you’re going to live in a community and work in a community, it’s nice to know that the money you’re bringing home stays in the community. And I think that is a work life choice of being part of a community actively rather than even if you’re an entrepreneur, hiring people all over the globe and paying income that you might receive locally, out globally. I don’t know how important that is in this trending process, but to me it means quite a bit.

Joseph Pascaretta [00:34:06]:
We believe it’s tremendous. We believe the global nature and the AI and more of this future technology only enables those local tradesmen, field services reps to do their job better. One of the number one things we’re seeing with AI is the ability to train a new, younger person on what would normally take them years. AI is enabling this idea of training on what a 2030, 40 year veteran in the space would have to learn, would have to apprentice, would have to stay next to him. The idea of on an iPad, on a mobile device, being able to pull up, how should I, you know, put in this water heater because of the complexity of this old piping from a hundred year old house, like you were saying, some, you know, the idea that there’s training material that is aggregated globally and being put into the hands of that trades person, whether their field, whether they’re in the field and allows them to do their job very quickly and learn and watch a video, for example. Video technology is one of the, the largest things we’re seeing with the technicians, or maybe repairing a lawnmower on site, which normally you would have to take back to your garage to get addressed. We’re seeing where the global nature and the AI nature augmenting and supplementing those field services reps which look a customer in the eye, which are their present with the customer which, which, you know, look, you can argue, you know, there’s technology where, you know, lawnmowers are going to be AI driven, bot driven, all of that.

Frank Cottle [00:35:59 ]:
That’s the electrically driven soon too, so I won’t have to listen to them in my neighborhood.

Joseph Pascaretta [00:36:03 ]:
That’s right. That’s right. And some states are starting to take more aggressive nature. But once, until we get there, there’s still the human element of, of what we do. And what I see in the next five to ten years is all of that technology shouldn’t detour or scare people. It should be meant to get not only somebody willing to go into field service more excited that it isn’t as hard. You can have a repository or a library of how to do things at your fingertips, versus in the past you had to have somebody present there that had 40 years. That’s exciting for them, but it’s also exciting for the customer because guess what? You’re supporting a local entrepreneur, somebody that’s in the field, to your point, somebody that gets to know the community and somebody that you can call on to do things. We’re just trying to make it more optimized. I don’t want people picking the phone up.

Frank Cottle [00:36:57 ]:
It is definitely happening. I know Rolls Royce builds jet engines for planes. As we know, we have an entire. For the mechanics that run the maintenance on their engines, they have an entire holographic structure that those mechanics are trained on to begin with and then can be accessed via their own terminals or their own laptops, etcetera, for local maintenance on every aspect of that engine and troubleshooting it, which is not just a time saver and a quality issue, but it’s a safety issue. It’s a massive safety issue for the people that are flying planes with those engines. And whether it’s a lawnmower or this or that, to be able to do an exploded 3d, here’s where your parts, and to troubleshoot that way and then fix things or maintain things is a huge benefit of applying technology to the trades that we’re seeing overall. Could you give us one last nugget, if you will, on the transition within the trades and how you see the shifts to technology playing an important role in the growth of the trades to the benefit of those of us that use them every day.

Joseph Pascaretta [00:38:21 ]:
Yeah, I think the biggest thing that we’re seeing at work wave, but also in working with thousands of companies in all different levels, we’re starting to see AI and automation play a real significant role. AI and automation has been around for more than ten years. I came from a company called infor that was one of the pioneers in the 2010 to 2015 era, where it was more automation, which was great helping automate tasks, but we believe by 2025, so by next year, AI and automation is going to impact specifically in field services in the trade industry, over 45% of the tasks, which is huge, it’s tremendous. And that’s not only software technologies like workwave, but other tools and utilities that are being used, whether it’s IoT adoption, 45%. And that’s not only going to help the tradesmen, the field services organizations do a better job and have a better margin through optimization, but it’s also going to help the customer. So that’s one of the stats that’s pretty interesting, pretty eye opening. 45% of the task is where the industry’s trending, and the next bit of it is this idea of remote work and expansion. We believe that over 30%, as we’re seeing more trends towards remote work in the field services space, that idea that 30% of the workers globally are going to be remote, obviously we participate in that with our field technicians and tradesmen are globally deployed in the field. That’s exciting. But probably one of the most exciting areas, in my opinion, is this idea to build your own business, to start your own business. As being a former entrepreneur myself, the gig economy expansion. So even those that don’t necessarily want to build multi branch locations hire a bunch of employees, but may want to service trade themselves and get into it themselves, and maybe it’s them and one other person. We see a projection of over 450 billion globally in the next year. And that’s if you do the math, in the United States alone, that’s over 70 million gig economy workers. And that’s a really, really exciting space for those that do want to just get into business for themselves without the notion that they want to grow into a franchise or a multi state business. And I know that can be quite scary, because having been a gig economy worker and then moved up to hiring five people, then moved up to 100 people, those transitions were highly difficult and they were very challenging as to how you go about doing it. And I look at my satisfaction level and a lot of folks think, well, you must have been most satisfied when you were 100 people. And I would say that gave me the most gray hair. But the reality is you don’t have any gray hair. I would say the reality was I was most satisfied when I had two trucks going around because I had the most control on the business and I knew my quality was there. Once we started to grow up too fast, too quick, that’s where we started to experience challenges. So there’s nothing wrong with being a gig to a one or two crew organization. There’s a lot of reward in that. There’s a lot of control in that. So I’ve heard from entrepreneurs myself, feeling the pressure of growing into a multi state, multi franchise, and that’s not always the most rewarding bet. So I think there’s a lot of opportunity in just yourself. Gig economy all the way up to one or two trucks.

Frank Cottle [00:42:26 ]:
Yeah, no, I agree with you completely. I know my very first company when I was going through college and just had gotten married, was a commercial diving company. We did maintenance on a specialized group of vessels. And when I look back, some of my best life stories comes from that five person little company that we had, as opposed to the larger companies that we have today. So I get that. Well, Joseph, it’s been a real pleasure speaking with you. Getting your views on the transition that we’re going through right now shifts to technology from the tradesmen, shift from classic jobs to the trades, etcetera. I think it is a major trend in the future of work, and we’re really grateful to you for sharing your views.

Joseph Pascaretta [00:43:17 ]:
Frank, thanks for having me. It’s been a privilege. And thank you for what you do and, you know, appreciate you having me today.

Frank Cottle [00:43:23 ]:
Our pleasure. Take care.

Joseph Pascaretta [00:43:25 ]:
Okay. Take care, Frank. Thanks.