Jeremy Fennema – CTO and Founder of Fennema.io | How Emerging Tech is Reshaping Business Models and Workplaces

Jeremy Fennema [00:01:01]: 100%. So, Frank, it’s really exciting to be here. I’ve been working in this space for about 25 years, technology leadership, and seen a lot of different things done a lot of different things. So I’m really excited to share my perspective and talk to you about the future of work.

Frank Cottle [00:01:18]: Well, you know, the future of work is everything. As we go forward, we all have to make a living somehow. And how we address that and the impact of technology is amazing. I know, going back into 19, 79, 80, this is real ancient history and technology. We did a joint venture with Bell Labs and created the product. At that time, we were the first, as an operator of service offices, the first company to have a simultaneous voice and data transmission over four pair twisted cable touchscreen monitors running off big things. We were so far ahead, nobody had any idea what we were doing.

Jeremy Fennema [00:02:04]: Sure.

Frank Cottle [00:02:05]: So technology is interesting. It’s hitting the sweet spot of being able to apply the technology to real day applications rather than what we did, which was be five, seven years ahead. We spent all our time teaching people about how to use it rather than them adapting to it. It was a total screw up, actually. So as we look forward to the future of work, in your view, how do you see emerging technologies reshaping traditional business models and workplace dynamics? That’s particular importance, 100%.

Jeremy Fennema [00:02:46]: So I think if you look at this, there’s a number of emerging technologies that companies are looking to leverage and figure out where they’re going with them. So you’ve got things like cloud computing, you’ve got something that got a lot of press a couple of years ago and sort of fallen by the wayside blockchain technology. Then you have some really interesting things like IoT that’s also been around for a while, but something that I think is going to get a lot more interest. And then, of course, the belle of the ball, generative AI that everybody’s talking about these days. But I think that’s one of the reasons why IoT is actually going to get some more visibility. So Internet of things like small edge computing devices, typically up till now they’ve just been intelligent sensors or small microprocessors. But as we start to see generative AI evolve, you’re going to find, and some of this exists right now. You’re going to find that it’s possible to embed AI in those edge computing devices, in that IoT infrastructure and make these really smart edge computing devices that can make really intelligent decisions about things and feed that information back to a larger ecosystem that creates a really interesting solution. So AWS, for instance, right now is building these advanced manufacturing facilities. Amazon and AWS together are building these advanced manufacturing facilities where they’re incorporating IoT and AI in that fashion. To be able to have a facility that works more productively, it’s generating more, you know, it’s more efficient across the board, requires less workers to work in that environment. But creating a really powerful ecosystem that I think is going to be one of the trends that you start to see in, like the manufacturing industry.

Frank Cottle [00:05:01]: Well, I think that’s right, and I think you’re right on that. When we talk about artificial intelligence, Bell of the ball, as you mentioned it, we all look at the real flashy stuff up front. Hey, I can do this, I can do that. There’s some pretty flashy stuff, how it’s going to deal with robotics and things of that nature, the science fiction stuff that we’ve all been raised with. But the reality is, and I’ll, again, I’ll fall back on our own company. We have artificial intelligence elements built into almost all the software that we use to run our company now. And we’ve noticed that we can do 20% to 30% more with the same number of people. And there’s nothing hard or challenging or frightening about what, how this all runs, but it is changing the dynamics in the workplace and that individuals are becoming much more productive. And the concern there is, well, you didn’t fire anybody because you’re using this new AI. You know, you didn’t let a whole group of people go. They haven’t hired anybody in the last year either.

Jeremy Fennema [00:06:28]: Right.

Frank Cottle [00:06:28]: Okay. And we would have hired in our little company about another 20 to 25 people this year. We found we didn’t need to, and we still think we won’t need to, probably for another three months, maybe four, because we think we can get up to a 50% increase in productivity rather than a 30%. And I think that’s an interesting shift. And also the shift to us is each of those team members now has more value to us. And so while we haven’t hired anybody, we have been giving more raises and bonuses.

Jeremy Fennema [00:07:12 ]: Nice.

Frank Cottle [00:07:12]: So we haven’t hired any new people, but we have been streaming more money back into the economy, if you will. The result of these changes, which to the economy has not quite the same impact as hiring people, but it has a very positive impact. I’m using us as a guinea pig here, but how do you see that? Do you see companies really changing as a result of AI? And it will be like the army of little things versus the big cool scientific, science fiction thing. How do you see that balancing out?

Jeremy Fennema [00:07:56]: You know, I wonder if all of these, it’s great that that’s what you’re experiencing, your company. I wonder if a lot of the tech layoffs, for instance, have been driven by this concept that if they develop AI more sophisticated, in a more sophisticated fashion, that they won’t actually need, you know, all of these people, they needed to cut them anyway because they wanted to make their bottom line look better. But they may in fact be anticipating that they’re not going to bring them back because they think, you know, AI can supplant some of that.

Frank Cottle [00:08:31 ]: And from the tech layoffs, I think we had two or three things. First, we had a boost in the tech industry where Microsoft was afraid not to hire somebody because Amazon would hire them.

Jeremy Fennema [00:08:46]: Yeah, yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:08:47]: So there was, there was a battle for talent that got out of hand and all the companies admittedly now said, yeah, we got a little overzealous. We over hired more than we needed. So now we’re correcting that. Too bad, people. But that is a natural correction that’s going on. The other thing that I see from an AI point of view is you’re not going to need baseline coders anymore.

Jeremy Fennema [00:09:19]: Yeah, that’s an interesting perspective. Right now, currently you can have your integrated development environment, your ide up as a developer, and there’s plugins that will sit alongside your coding and start suggesting next blocks of code for you or coding whole sections for you. You’ve got things like Amazon AWS’s codewhisperer. There’s a number of technologies inside of chat GPT that you can use. I was just using one the other day to code, a flutter app, completely from scratch, with AI doing all of the coding and configuration for me, and it was an exceptional experience. But I think that there’s a difference between AI doing that work for you or doing that work alongside of you and saying you don’t need people to.

Frank Cottle [00:10:16]: Do that work, you’re going to need people to. Just like when we’re at all workspace, which is a digital publication, no matter how many gifted writers we have, we still need an editor, right? So you’re always going to have to have someone managing that new system and that new process. But yesterday’s coding, which was very a row of people at a row of desks change to a smaller row of people at a more sophisticated row of desks, if you will, that are really code managers and editors as opposed to just baseline coders.

Jeremy Fennema [00:11:07]: I also think it’s going to shift that skill set into testing. So one of the things that you have right now in a good SDLC process is that you distance the developers from the testing process. You don’t really want the developers who coded the content, coded the programs to do the testing on the programs because they’ve got an implicit bias right there.

Frank Cottle [00:11:30 ]: It always works, doesn’t it?

Jeremy Fennema [00:11:32]: It’s amazing. It always works. But when you have a different group that’s testing it, whether it’s peer testing or just a full QA system that’s testing those, you create a better quality product because you’ve got other people that are looking at it. I think one of the things that you’ll probably see alongside of this is that the role of the developer will be to make sure that they’re testing the AI code. And that’s something that actually is one of the big security concerns that you see out there right now. If you read current articles about what’s happening with AI is there are developers that are using AI to generate code like I did, but they’re not going back and testing it, right. They’re just using it. They’re saying, well, AI generated, so it must be great. And then they’re not spending any time doing any kind of quality control on it. And you could have bugs in there, you could have security vulnerabilities in there. So I think that’s certainly an issue. But I also think some of that tends to be written by people that are trying to justify keeping developers, keeping developers in an existing development role, and sort of the pushback against adopting AI wholesale. So that’s fear mongering.

Frank Cottle [00:12:59]: We’re kind of going down the AI rabbit hole a little bit here. But the point, I believe, is that emerging technologies will be changing and are changing on an accelerated basis all workplace dynamics. But how does that, you know, remote work is such an important part of the way we work today. How do you see from a technology perspective, these key advancements supporting and enhancing the role of remote workers versus the historic model of, you know, everybody in one room all the time? How do you see these technologies support the shift in the workplace that is lifestyle driven as much as anything else? Work life balance driven for an awful lot of people. I noticed you’re working from your home office.

Jeremy Fennema [00:13:58]: That’s right.

Frank Cottle [00:13:58]: Beautiful forest behind you through the window. I’m in my home office in my dark dentist. We are remote workers, both of us. And yeah, I am 100% remote. Have been for about 25 years. I just like being alone. But how is these new technologies going to enhance that? Or, I mean, how does that come to play, in your view?

Jeremy Fennema [00:14:33 ]: Yeah, so I think it’s easy to talk about this in terms of developers, but I want to take it away from that sort of space a little bit and bring it into maybe a little bit of a different space. So let’s think about the person working in finance who is struggling with some spreadsheets that they’re trying to figure out how to get to the point that they’re working the way that they want them to work, to be able to generate data for some report that they’re trying to put together. If you think about how that gets solved today, they’re maybe reaching out to some colleagues. They’re doing some Google searches, maybe they post on a forum. They’re using a number of traditional sort of troubleshooting methods, or they just keep hacking away at it. But that can take hours, it can take days, maybe even weeks to solve some of those problems. And I think one of the shifts that we’ll see is that AI is going to sit there alongside of them. I mean, you see this already in office, right? You’ve got copilot that sits there and can help, you know, with some tasks.

Frank Cottle [00:15:40]: But I think that we work in all shared documents.

Jeremy Fennema [00:15:44]: Yeah, right.

Frank Cottle [00:15:45]: If you were working on that proverbial spreadsheet, both your other teammates that are crewmates, we call them, that are in the same problem solving area, as well as a super supervisor and the manager all have the. I mean, it’s a shared document. On a. On a crew basis, there might be five or six people, seven people that are not watching it simultaneously but have access to it. And so there’s no if you run up against that wall, there’s always someone that can come right into the document with you. That’s shared documents started off in engineering, but on daily work, we find that incredibly effective.

Jeremy Fennema [00:16:36]: Yeah, and I agree with you, shared documents and those sort of collaborative environments, 100%. But I think, too, when you’re hitting a problem, a lot of times you don’t want everybody else to know that you’ve got a problem. You don’t want somebody to think that you don’t know how to do your job. You don’t want somebody to realize that maybe this is something that you’re struggling with. You aren’t always going to your coworker the minute you hit a problem and saying, hey, or piping up in the shared document and saying, hey, I need help with this thing. You’re trying to solve some of that stuff on your own. And I think one of the things that you can get with a tool like an AI companion, which is where I see a lot of that going, is the idea that it can help you solve those problems, solve them quickly, but do that alongside of you without you having to involve other people and without sort of making you feel like you’re not effective. And I think a lot of these tools, for anything that you’ve got in a remote work environment, they’re all going to be facilitating those kinds of things. Right? So you need VPN’s, you need collaborative workspaces, you need technology that’s going to help you facilitate all of this interaction. And a lot of that stuff has been around for a while. Like you said, collaboration has been something that has been available in engineering and technology for a number of years, for longer than that. Yeah. But I think what changes is how much people are using it and how much you need. Right? So maybe five or six years ago, a company only needed five or ten VPN licenses because they were used infrequently, and now they need 200, or they don’t need any because they’ve gone to a complete cloud infrastructure where VPN isn’t necessary. Right. Everything’s up in the cloud, everything’s working in a shared environment, and you’re not really having a VPN into anything. So it just depends on how those pieces are being leveraged by the company. And I think another piece of that is pros and cons, when the head of it needs to go to the C suite leadership and say, hey, I need to buy 180 more VPN licenses. And they’re like, well, this is crazy. They have to think about the trade offs and the benefits. You’ve got all these people that are working remote, which maybe means we don’t need as much office space, or maybe we can migrate to a coworking space environment where we’re using that as our method for in person meetings or, you know, quarterly touch bases.

Frank Cottle [00:19:45]: A huge difference in flexibility and to a corporate, to a CFO, a big difference in the way the debt on the balance sheet looks by going to that higher model.

Jeremy Fennema [00:19:58]: But I think there’s some people that don’t want to let that go, right? There’s some leaders that there’s a lot of prestige that they have in the big building and the corner office, and it’s hard for them to disconnect that Persona that they have and think about how they’re reworking their entire business to be more productive, more agile, more innovative, but maybe at the expense of looking themselves more prestigious.

Frank Cottle [00:20:26]: Well, I think that that will always be the case in many things overall, but we’re seeing a trend shift in space use. I don’t think we’re not magical in seeing that. I think it’s glaringly obvious and that the large corporate landmark space is going to be diminished overall just for pure economics of the competitive world environment. If you’re a company and you have x amount of space on, we’ll just say ten year leases, everything over that first year goes on as debt on your balance sheet. And that debt ratio impacts your ability to access capital, and that impacts your ability to grow your company, which impacts your ability to service your shareholders 100%. Any CEO that thinks doesn’t consider that as part of their return to office. Remote work, hybrid work strategy is really not, in my opinion, at least not a particularly great decision maker.

Jeremy Fennema [00:21:45 ]: Agreed.

Frank Cottle [00:21:46]: So, you know, again, we keep going down these rabbits.

Jeremy Fennema [00:21:51]: It’s a good discussion then, right?

Frank Cottle [00:21:53]: It really is. So, you know, artificial intelligence, the new technologies, etcetera, really do enhance an individual’s capacity to be productive. And the freedom that some of these tools provide. Some of these tools provide an additional layer of support to an individual that allows more freedom for, in essence, the potential of a greater amount of remote work.

Jeremy Fennema [00:22:24]: Yes.

Frank Cottle [00:22:25]:God, glad we strung that together.

Jeremy Fennema [00:22:30]: Good summary.

Frank Cottle [00:22:31]: Okay, well, I think we’re going in the right direction, but how do you think that artificial intelligence, and we’ve had a few bells of the ball before. Virtual reality. Yeah, augmented reality, which they’re still there. When we start blending some of those things with artificial intelligence, we get a whole new variety of technologies. But I think those fall into that cutting edge or bleeding edge rather than demand edge. And I think a lot of the little applets or utilities that you’re talking about that are embedded in the Internet of things or all software. Now, you can’t buy a major piece of software and not have all the artificial intelligence claims screaming. Part of it is promotion, but also an awful lot of it is reality.

Jeremy Fennema [00:23:34 ]: Let me just interject real quick. So you mentioned augmented reality, and I think that’s a really interesting thing, especially when it comes to the future of work. So we’ve heard a lot about this, right? And people have talked about virtual meetings and this, that the next thing I just saw this morning about something that Apple was rolling out for the vision, where they’ve got avatars that’ll actually move based on your mouth and this, that the next thing. But the way, you know, I was thinking about this and the way I vision, the way I think about this is think about back in the eighties and where computers were, right? So virtually nobody had computers in their home, and only very specific businesses had computers for specific needs. Right?

Frank Cottle [00:24:24 ]: Our first computer was a big mini, the size of a refrigerator.

Jeremy Fennema [00:24:30]: Yeah, exactly. But today, everybody’s got a computer in their pocket. They’ve got multiple computers around their house. Right? And it’s a ubiquitous technology. They have computers in their cars. Everywhere there are powerful computers, and even the dumbest computer, even the one that’s in my fridge, is probably smarter than the computer that launched the Allwork.Space rockets to the moon. And so I think we’ll see something similar when it comes to augmented reality. I think when we get to the point where augmented reality technology is becoming more prevalent like that, I think that’s when we’ll start to see the work being less about a place that you’re a physical place that you’re at and become more of a virtual place that you’re at. I think that’s where you’ll start to see meetings happening virtually, touch bases happening, virtually, those kinds of things happening up in these sort of virtual spaces. But right now, the technology just isn’t so comfortable.

Frank Cottle [00:25:52 ]: Say that I spent a couple of days working in a virtual world. Yeah. With a headset on.

Jeremy Fennema [00:25:59]: Yep.

Frank Cottle [00:26:00]: Big old, heavy, funky thing. You get used to that. Embarrassing story. I got lost in my sensory management and knocked over a cup of coffee on my desk.

Jeremy Fennema [00:26:16]: Oh, no.

Frank Cottle [00:26:18]: But. So I was really goofy at it. But I’ve spent a couple days in that, and I’ve spent a day working in a full hollow room where I was working literally at a cafe in France.

Jeremy Fennema [00:26:30 ]: Oh, that’s great.

Frank Cottle [00:26:31 ]: But I was actually in Irvine, California.

Jeremy Fennema [00:26:34 ]: Nice.

Frank Cottle [00:26:35]: And. And I know the holographic technologies are available, very expensive to manage, not just the cameras and the technology, but the energy consumption. It’s very expensive.

Jeremy Fennema [00:26:47 ]: Yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:26:48 ]:  For to put in application broad based use. Ultimately, some blend of augmented or virtual reality with a dumb avatar. Even if the mouth moves, it’s weird, right? Of course, I’m better looking as an avatar, so. But this is all going to blend together to where you won’t really know. It won’t be augmented reality or virtual reality or holographic reality. It’d just be whatever the new thing is that combines all those. And I don’t think we’re gonna see it coming. I think it’s just going to occur. I think it’s just gonna happen naturally on an evolutionary basis.

Jeremy Fennema [00:27:37]: Yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:27:37 ]: And when that happens, what does that do to remote? Is there such a thing even as remote work?

Jeremy Fennema [00:27:43]: Yeah, see, I agree with you. I think that’s a really good point. I think when the physical locality becomes irrelevant, then you don’t end up with an idea of remote work. Work is wherever you are. Work is a thing that you’re doing, and you’re simply engaging in it in a space. There’s always going to be work that requires hands on stuff, somebody manually doing something, and so they’ll have to be in a physical location. But I think the vast majority of the workforce, where they’re generating some sort of product and not having to be hands on, I think that’s just going to be a place that you’re at. And I think there will be a merger of those two as well.

Frank Cottle [00:28:31 ]: You’re seeing a simplified iteration of that in the last several years with Gen Z teenagers. We’ll say having study buddies and going to the library together, simply opening shared. A shared screen. There’s 15 different apps you can do this on. Opening a shared environment where two or three of them are just there doing their homework in their own residences. But they are communal. Yeah, they are communal, and that adds comfort, adds inspiration. I know we as a company, oftentimes open a channel sharing channel, and again, are just doing a project at their own desk, doing their own thing. But it’s an open channel. You can four or five people in the. Even in the same office, we do that.

Jeremy Fennema [00:29:34 ]: Yep.

Frank Cottle [00:29:35 ]: And we find that it’s very effective. So the study buddy, or the work buddy, as it’s called in our environment, not by us, but just, I think that that sort of socialization begins to break down the concept of remote.

Jeremy Fennema [00:29:57]: Yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:29:58 ]: Because you’re always it’s. What’s the name of that movie? Anytime, anywhere, all at once.

Jeremy Fennema [00:30:04]: Yeah, all the. All the things I wear all at once or something like that. Yeah, yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:30:10 ]: But that concept of everything blending is. Is really what we’re on the edge of, or we’ve already passed the edge, probably. And I think that that will. The concept of a remote worker will diminish to where they’re. Because everything’s remote. Nothing’s remote.

Jeremy Fennema [00:30:34 ]: Yep, yep. 100%. I think it’s going to get to the point where the technology is as transparent or as unseen as your glasses. Right. And that becomes just part of the experience. Right. And so maybe, you know, you’ve got your phone is actually the device in your pocket that’s acting as all the computing power, and what’s on your head is actually acting as the interface, and you’ve got this seamless experience between the two, and you’re just enabling the levels of interaction and privacy that you want to have, depending on the environment that you’re in. Right.

Frank Cottle [00:31:21 ]: Yeah, it’s funny. And again, I use our now little company as an example. Everybody has multiple monitors on their desk.

Jeremy Fennema [00:31:28] : Yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:31:29 ]: Two to three monitors on their desk. Everybody. Yeah, everybody. Everybody has dedicated, high quality cameras. And what we find is oftentimes people will be working on one monitor, and the other monitor is open for collaboration.

Jeremy Fennema [00:31:48 ] Yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:31:49 ]: Because they’re working two channels, they’re working collaboratively, but they keep. They keep it all set up like that. Gosh, it’s productive.

Jeremy Fennema [00:31:59]: I think sometimes with a lot of people, this ends up being their second screen, like in the study buddy environments that you’re talking about. Right.

Frank Cottle [00:32:07]: That is generally what it is.

Jeremy Fennema [00:32:11 ]: And those two things are acting, you know, this is the sharing component, and that’s the work component, you know? And, you know, those become the entire experience for them.

Frank Cottle [00:32:22 ]: Yeah. Well, you know, there’s one flying the ointment here, and it’s security.

Jeremy Fennema [00:32:28 ]: Yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:32:30]: All these technologies, all this new stuff, all this required testing for a lot of purposes. How do we control this security on all of this and yet still have it be that open, flowing environment that we all, I won’t say we all want, but that we all expect to happen without bad guys or gals or just bad people messing it up?

Jeremy Fennema [00:33:05 ]: Yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:33:08 ]: Do you see that as something that will slow down this evolution, or do you think we’ll just ignore it like we seem to have right now? There was only 73 million records hacked out of at and t the other day.

Jeremy Fennema [00:33:25]: Right.

Frank Cottle [00:33:26 ]: It was only 73 million people, but, you know, we kind of we let. We’re letting people rob the bank, so to speak, and then we’re chasing them.

Jeremy Fennema [00:33:37 ]: Yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:33:38 ]: But we’re going to have to secure the banks, the intelligence here in this technology, much more effectively if we’re going to go to the next level. And how do you see that happening? Because without that, certain layers of remote work will never occur.

Jeremy Fennema [00:33:56]: Yep. Yeah. So I couldn’t remember if I’d shared with you before, but I was a counterintelligence agent for the US army for a number of years, and so I have a. I knew you were a little freaky.

Frank Cottle [00:34:08 ]: I know you’re a little freaky.

Jeremy Fennema [00:34:10 ]: So I’ve got a pretty strong background in the security realm. And one of the things that I see in my experience is that there’s a lot in common between bad actors and small companies. Right. They both tend to try and adopt small, like, tech companies. They tend to try and be early adopters of technology. They try and leverage anything that’s going to give them a competitive advantage. They tend to be small, nimble, agile and innovative. And so the way that you work to combat them can be very similar to how a large company is trying to stay ahead of its competitors, smaller, innovative tech companies, for instance. And so the bad actors are 100% leveraging AI right now. They just are. And that’s because it’s giving them the biggest competitive advantage for infiltrating and attacking systems of any tool out there. Because of what a powerful engine it is. Yeah.

Frank Cottle [00:35:25 ]: It’s an accelerator on everything.

Jeremy Fennema [00:35:27 ]: Exactly. And so I think the response to that is the same. Right. So this response is the defense mechanisms that we put in place need to also leverage AI and leverage it effectively. And so, again, you see companies like AWS and Amazon are 100% doing this. Right. I was just looking at an. An interview with the CISO at AWS from yesterday or the day before, where they were talking about how they’re dealing with cybersecurity and leveraging AI to be able to create models that can identify breaches that are happening and proactively attack and defend against those breaches and how they’re kind of incorporating this. Then you’ve got all these cybersecurity companies that are doing the same thing. But I think a lot of them, and this goes back to something you were saying before, I wonder how many of them are just slapping a powered by AI label on their solution. And not that they’re being disingenuous. I mean, I’m sure there’s an AI component to what they’re doing. But whether or not it’s a sophisticated AI solution for cybersecurity, I don’t know. I don’t know that anybody actually has that just yet. But I think those are critical because for us, and I’m going to use a biological analogy, for us, it’s the difference between evolving from penicillin, which these days is largely most pathogens, most bacteria are penicillin resistant. So it’s just not used as much evolving from that to something like the human immune system, which can adapt to any kind of pathogen that it encounters. You get sick for a little bit, and then you overcome it and you fight it off, right? And you’ve got this incredibly adaptive immune system that’s part of our. Who we are as human beings. I think that’s the model that AI needs to try and evolve into where it can teach itself what is a breach. Identify things immediately when they’re happening. As soon as that pathogen is coming into their environment, they can identify it as foreign. They lock it down, they start putting up defenses against what’s happening and protecting the infrastructure, the trade off there. And again, I think it’s really a good analogy, is when you get sick, you’re knocked out of commission for a period of time. You get a cold, you get a flu, you’re not feeling great, you may not be able to work, and then you’re back up and running. And the question is, if that model ends up being what we see in business for AI, how much of a tolerance is business going to have for the business being sick when they’re under attack? And I think the knee jerk reaction is that they have none. But I think in reality, as the damages for people stealing information and using it and the damage to the company when this happens to them. And the ramifications of all of the negative issues around being hacked become more and more, more and more of a factor for companies. I think companies will start to get a little bit more comfortable with the idea that maybe they have to reduce operations for a short period of time while their AI solves the problem and shores up the defenses, and that becomes potentially the norm for things. But it’s always in cybersecurity, it’s always a trade off between risk and accessibility. Right. How secure do you want to be and how accessible do you want to be? 100% secure. Business is 100% not accessible.

Frank Cottle [00:39:40 ]: Yeah, I think you’re right on that. Oh, boy. We’ve covered an awful lot here. Jeremy. I’m really grateful for your thoughts overall, and your background is truly amazing. And I want to also mention that I know that you’re going to become a voice of the future of work.

Jeremy Fennema [00:40:00 ]: I am. I’m very excited about it, and a.

Frank Cottle [00:40:02 ]: Contributing author for all workspace. So everybody can look forward to your content, your articles that you’ll be producing as we go forward. And we really appreciate that and look forward to all the amazing things that you can share with us.

Jeremy Fennema [00:40:21 ]: Very much looking forward to it myself. It’s going to be really exciting. We’ll have a lot of great content coming out, and I hope people enjoy it.

Frank Cottle [00:40:27 ]: Sounds good. Well, Jeremy, thank you again for being on the podcast. It’s great chatting with you, and we’ll look forward to the future.

Jeremy Fennema [00:40:34 ]: Fantastic. Thanks, Frank. Take care.

Frank Cottle [00:40:36 ]: Take care.