The Future of Leadership Is Vulnerable, Not Bossy with Selena Rezvani

About This Episode 

In this episode of The Future of Work® Podcast, we sit down with Selena Rezvani — internationally known leadership speaker, TEDx presenter, LinkedIn Top Voice, and bestselling author of Quick Confidence and Quick Leadership. Selena shares practical tools for transforming traditional leadership into a more human, trust-based practice. Drawing on her work with organizations like Microsoft, Pfizer, and The World Bank, she offers powerful strategies for empowering employees, creating psychologically safe teams, and cultivating inclusion across generations. From ditching bossware to encouraging self-advocacy, this conversation is a must-listen for leaders navigating the new era of hybrid work, shifting generational values, and the mental health crisis impacting today’s workforce. 

About Selena Rezvani 

Selena Rezvani is an internationally recognized leadership speaker and author, honored by Forbes as “the premier expert on advocating for yourself at work.” A LinkedIn Top Voice and Fast Company Top Content Creator, Selena trains leaders at global organizations like Microsoft, Nestlé, and Pfizer, helping them build confidence, presence, and trust. With over 500,000 followers across platforms and bestselling books including Quick Confidence and Quick Leadership, she delivers bite-sized leadership insights to professionals daily. 

What You’ll Learn 

• Why ditching the “boss image” is key to modern leadership 
• How to build psychological safety with small, daily actions 
• The difference between empowering and dominating your team 
• Why millennials are the bridge generation shaping future leadership 
• How to run more inclusive and efficient meetings 
• Tips for encouraging self-advocacy without creating friction 
• The future of leadership in an age of surveillance and mistrust 
• How to redefine professionalism for Gen Z teams 
• Why being a supporting character (not the main one) builds team trust 
• How to support foster open dialogue and challenge over agreement 

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Transcript

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:00:00,000 ] I think the days of boss optics and do it because I said so has really expired. And I think what we need to come back to is humanity and usefulness. Let’s stop overcomplicating management.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:00:16,379 ] Salena, hi, thank you so much for joining us on the Future of Work podcast. How are you?

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:00:21,430 ] i’m good i’m so glad to be here daniel and a fan of yours so thank you for having me

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:00:26,660 ] I’m also a fan and I mean, I’m really honored to have you on board. I mean, you are a LinkedIn top voice. You have Wall Street Journal bestselling books. You’re also a LinkedIn instructor. You’ve been on TEDx. I mean. it’s really an honor to have you here and i’m really looking forward to the conversation we’re going to be having.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:00:47,280 ] Say you’re often described as the workplace whisperer. You help people find their confidence and their voice at work. But. When you say and you mention that.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:01:01,640 ] leaders or everyone overall should be ditching the boss image

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:01:06,280 ] What do you really mean? And why is this important now?

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:01:11,390 ] Yeah, I think more than ever, people are struggling at work. There’s high employee skepticism. you know, for the first time ever among generations.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:01:23,950 ] we have a more pessimistic view of how our kids’ generation life will be. than we do for our own. That shows a huge loss in optimism for many people. And so I think the days of boss optics and do it because I said so has really expired. And I think what we need to come back to Daniel is.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:01:47,760 ] humanity and usefulness. let’s stop over complicating management and bring it back to those things over authority.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:01:57,970 ] And so I have a few specific ways I think we can do that. One of them is.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:02:05,460 ] challenging some of this lousy advice that I think many of us got. And I know I got it. I think I was actually taught it in my MBA program. But moving from this stoic pillar.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:02:18,350 ] You know, leaders should be unflappable. Never let them see you sweat.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:02:23,770 ] to being a breathing, living human.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:02:26,690 ] Vulnerable

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:02:27,970 ] Yeah. Yes.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:02:30,890 ] You know, so replacing I must look like impenetrable bulletproof with I do have my own concerns. I have my own mistakes I’ve made. I’ve had updates and evolutions in my thinking. And I am allowed to show those.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:02:47,500 ] Yeah. Yeah, I definitely get that. And I agree, I think

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:02:52,810 ] It’s a more, um, It’s an old fashioned

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:02:58,210 ] train of thought where leaders who are taught to be leaders, which the majority aren’t. Let’s get that clear. Some people are just put in leadership positions and there you go, just do it. But the ones that are taught some leadership, like you mentioned, they’re taught to be a rock. and people aren’t rocks right and i myself as a leader um

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:03:23,410 ] I just bring myself to work and I’m a vulnerable human being. And I think that just creates an atmosphere where people can feel like mistakes can be made, like people can reach out. And I think you’re right on point on that.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:03:39,220 ] And for many listeners, management.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:03:43,400 ] still evokes like images of hierarchy like you said pressure deadlines

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:03:48,650 ] How would you define true leadership in today’s workplace beyond just managing tasks? You mentioned you had some. ideas or points on that? What would you say?

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:04:01,580 ] That’s a great question. I think one change that we can make to be less hierarchical is.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:04:10,020 ] Stop trying to be the Oracle.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:04:12,700 ] the person with all the answers, the solution giver, the answer dispenser. And instead, help your people build their problem solving muscles. It doesn’t mean you’re not a support. You very much are. But for example, when someone comes to you and says, Daniel. I have this client problem. How should I handle it? You could swoop in with the answer.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:04:37,640 ] because of your experience, et cetera. But I think a better approach is something I call ask three. before you answer Ask them three questions. What have you tried so far?

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:04:50,730 ] Okay, and what solution are you leaning towards?

SPEAKER_2

[ 00:04:54,330 ] What do you think?

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:04:55,310 ] What do you think is the natural right next step?

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:04:59,590 ] And it’s amazing what even that simple thing does for your people. It’s an extension of trust. It’s confidence building. Right? And it’s so subtle. They’re not going to know you’re doing ask three before you answer. but boy are they going to appreciate it and remember. that show of confidence. So I think that’s a really concrete thing we can do to lower some hierarchy.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:05:25,350 ] Okay, that sounds amazing. And it reminds me of the saying

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:05:30,100 ] I’m not going to say it right, but instead of giving someone a fish to fry, teach them how to fish the fish, you know? Cause then, yeah.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:05:39,080 ] But that’s right on point. Do you have any other pointers for leaders and managers?

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:05:44,190 ] I think another one is an assumption that we all many of us take with us, which is that I should kind of take up the most space, the most oxygen in the room as the leader, almost that I might look weak. if I’m not the main character.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:06:00,990 ] And so one. counterintuitive shift can be going from main character to supporting character.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:06:08,630 ] And that can mean shifting the spotlight onto other people. I talk about in Quick Leadership, the book. Um, you know, deferring to others publicly. You know, Daniel, you’re closest to that project. Why don’t you speak to it? Or Susan, you know this best. I’m going to hand it over to you.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:06:31,310 ] that clear show of, again, confidence in other people and yielding, right? That’s such a powerful word as a leader today to. yield from the spotlight and again, reflect it onto someone else. One other thing I’d say is. as a leader or manager. you’re often lavished with benefits that other people don’t have. You’re maybe always invited to the client lunch. where people see you as the face of the project.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:07:02,290 ] But all those people doing the invisible behind the scenes work.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:07:06,660 ] Um, give some of those benefits, even unearned benefits you might be getting to them. You know, I’m invited to professional development off sites all the time. Hey, would you like to represent our team this month. Would you like to be the one to go to the client lunch?

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:07:26,240 ] You know, it’s so simple, but that’s one way to go from that main character to supporting character. Spread opportunity.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:07:34,370 ] That’s amazing. Those are really, really good pointers and good tips.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:07:39,430 ] You.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:07:40,890 ] If we shift a little to mental health, I mean, you were saying it yourself and I do believe it’s true. Everyone knows that it’s true. There’s a lot of uncertainty right now in the workplace, in the future of work. People are clinging on to their jobs.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:07:56,560 ] People are afraid to lose their job because they know the market out there is very hard right now. And that impacts mental health.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:08:05,830 ] And your work emphasizes self advocacy and psychological safety. right that’s that’s one of your um main themes and you’ve been called the premier expert on advocating for oneself by forbes um

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:08:20,710 ] There’s data, Selena.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:08:23,090 ] that

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:08:24,840 ] shows that 69% of employees, so seven out of 10, let’s say, say that their manager impacts their mental health, right? as much as potentially their spouse or their partner. We’re at work one third of our lives, or is it two? It’s a lot. It’s a lot. So in your experience, what are some small daily actions that managers can take to make that impact?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:08:53,130 ] a bit more positive on their mental health rather than negative you just mentioned some pointers but if we focus on mental health or one’s

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:09:04,350 ] self-worth, self-value. What are some small

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:09:08,910 ] that managers or leaders can take on a daily basis or on a weekly basis to make their people feel that psychological safety

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:09:17,980 ] If any, I mean. What do you think?

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:09:22,300 ] well boy do you know it when you’re unsafe you know any of us who’ve ever bitten our tongue or maybe wanted to challenge the direction.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:09:32,750 ] but thought, oh, I don’t want to make waves. We know what it’s like when it doesn’t feel safe. How do you make it safe? One way is to reward. healthy challenge on your team. So when somebody does muster up the courage to say, Hey guys, I have a concern about this. I think we’re you know, sabotaging the deadline or the timeline on the project.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:09:58,700 ] even if you can’t give that person their way. You are rewarding in that moment. You are praising.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:10:06,180 ] Thank you for thinking so critically about that. You know, unfortunately we need to keep the deadline this time, but.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:10:14,400 ] Keep doing that. You are smiling. You are affirming them because just even the smallest facial expressions, a look of irritation, an eye roll. from a manager you know who’s maybe thinking oh you you’re slowing things down i want to keep going right? They’re picking all that up. Your turn. So again, reward healthy challenge when people do do it.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:10:40,050 ] I think another thing is calling out over agreement.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:10:44,910 ] yes okay i’m interested in this one okay what do you mean by that

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:10:48,890 ] Well, just remember at no time. Are your employees unaware of the power differential between you, the power dynamic? You control their paycheck, their job stability. Their advancement prospects, they are acutely aware of that at all times. So they may skew towards agreeing with you. Right. Knowing that and not pushing back. So when you sense that it’s too quiet, Why isn’t anyone speaking up about this? It’s like a pregnant pause in the room and you sense it. call it out say something like hey guys that was either the best idea i’ve ever come up with in my life or you all have some concerns that you’re not speaking to right now like Let’s get it out on the table, please. I know.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:11:39,210 ] It’s probably not perfect. So I think that’s a skill too.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:11:44,640 ] And. look just on these two things that you’ve mentioned the first ones feeling safe psychological safety i’m just going to put in some personal examples here i remember when i used to work for another company, our boss. would make it so hard for us to ask questions about a specific project or campaign, he would literally call us out and be like, That’s a dumb question. Who has another one?

SPEAKER_2

[ 00:12:11,240 ] and that

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:12:12,510 ] That would really, I mean, that just stuck to me. and

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:12:17,750 ] what i try to do and i think it goes to what you’re saying these tips is There really aren’t any dumb questions. People understand things differently. And I always try to make that clear in meetings or when we start new projects. Questions? there really aren’t any dumb questions. So I think that’s sort of psychological safety, right? People need to be sure that they can call out certain behavior, that they can raise their hand and ask questions or ask for help. So I think that’s great advice on your end. It has happened to me. It sort of traumatized me. And now I try to make sure that people know that there are, in fact, no dumb questions. Because you know what happens most of the time? A lot of people have the same question.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:13:02,130 ] Right? But no one raises their hand. All right.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:13:06,070 ] And on the second thing that you mentioned, Um, Gosh, what’s the example I was going to give?

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:13:15,280 ] Like the over-agreement. Yes.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:13:19,820 ] I think it’s very important that managers and leaders do understand that I myself sometimes feel that people just say yes to me.

SPEAKER_2

[ 00:13:27,280 ] mm-hmm

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:13:28,170 ] And that’s just not right because.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:13:31,780 ] I think as managers and as leaders, we need to be challenged as well. Because people see things, our team see things from a different point of view. They have different perspectives. And sometimes those perspectives can make either a campaign or a project or a company as a whole more efficient.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:13:53,160 ] Those are great tips on your end. Thank you for sharing them. And they have happened to me. So I’m certain that a lot of leaders will relate to these and I hope. that they make them a daily habit because their habits you got to learn to make it a habit you can’t have it posted and be like okay remember to tell people that there are no dumb questions there really needs to be something that you promote from within i think

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:14:15,660 ] I think you’re right. And I’m really glad you shared that one because so many of us learn these things from Man, remind me never to do that when I’m a manager. You know, those experiences, like you said. um So, I think that’s so smart to have a like no dumb questions policy here.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:14:34,240 ] And again, I really do believe that a lot of leaders are put in these positions and they’re not told or mentored on how to lead. And I think in my personal experience, I’ve learned more from my previous bosses and previous companies on how not to be a leader. more than on how to be a leader. But as long as you know how not to then you’re you’re going the right way right

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:15:00,580 ] Right.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:15:02,030 ] It’s true. It’s some kind of information, right? It may be a little sad that that’s how we have to learn some of it. Yeah. but Sometimes it still provides the guardrails of like, I’m not going to go that far. I’m going to make a point to. you know, keep my behavior in this kind of lane.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:15:23,820 ] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:15:26,450 ] So.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:15:28,040 ] With remote work and with hybrid work, Meetings.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:15:34,410 ] First of all, I think we’re having too many meetings, but that’s beside the point. Meetings still remain a central part of our corporate life, right?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:15:44,120 ] Yet a lot of them feel unproductive or exclusive. There’s a lot of relaying and back and forth. In your book and workshops, you really emphasize equity and inclusion. okay so what’s your advice for managers

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:15:59,980 ] Oh, and I really want to hear this one. What’s your advice for managers to turn meetings into genuinely inclusive spaces where all voices matter?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:16:09,750 ] at the same time that these be efficient. I myself as a manager feel like we have too many meetings.

SPEAKER_2

[ 00:16:16,320 ] Um,

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:16:18,210 ] And we struggle on figuring out. how to organize meetings is it one meeting a week where everyone’s in it is it too many one-on-ones between me and my team and you know what would your advice be for meetings to be efficient

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:16:36,030 ] and inclusive.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:16:38,670 ] Yeah, so I think this is a headache for everybody. Most people feel they have too many. I think when you plan a meeting and you are bringing people together and you are taking them away from their deep focus.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:16:53,470 ] flow. work.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:16:56,510 ] That’s a big ask of their attention and their energy. because they’re going to do this multiple times a day, interrupt their focus on their deep work. to come attend a meeting and so i think we need to treat them as more precious and be more sparing in the first place and really challenge ourselves as managers to ask How can I have fewer? do them for fewer minutes, invite fewer people, like just the essential required needed people. So I think that’s the first mindset is just pruning these. auditing your calendar and teaching your team to audit their calendar quarterly are there any recurring meetings on there that kind of aren’t critical anymore or you don’t belong there anymore

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:17:43,410 ] I think once we’re in the room together, a few things you can do, get people talking in the first five minutes.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:17:51,390 ] There’s research that shows if we get the team talking in the first five minutes, they’re more likely to be participative throughout versus if we start with a lecture. you know, or a one way monologue. So that can be really simple, by the way, it could be.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:18:08,360 ] you know today we’re going to get into

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:18:11,820 ] Um, communicating our message to customers what’s one word for each of you what’s one word that comes to mind when you think of our communications today right it doesn’t have to be uh everyone’s doing a deep dive or giving a speech it could be a little thing

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:18:28,870 ] Another thing is slice up the agenda.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:18:32,410 ] It’d be amazing how many managers I work with coach still lead an entire meeting, every agenda item. rather than slicing it up and giving people different talking roles. It’s such a small thing, but you can change it up generationally. Hierarchically

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:18:51,130 ] Um, You know, so-and-so is going to address this project that they’re working on the front lines of. After that we’re going to hear from this other person. Again, it’s a different mindset from leaders should be the main character.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:19:04,540 ] Yeah.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:19:05,400 ] you know, to let’s literally hear multiple voices.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:19:09,910 ] And I just think one more thing you can do is. if you have a quieter group. where you have a group with dominators and some quieter people.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:19:20,350 ] having more of those round robin type questions.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:19:23,910 ] You know, I’m gonna share the plan. After that, I want to go around and hear from each of you. One opportunity you see, one concern maybe you have.

SPEAKER_2

[ 00:19:34,850 ] Okay.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:19:35,560 ] You know, so you’re setting expectations. We all contribute here. We all speak up. And that’s one way to level. you know, the airtime if you have some overtalkers.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:19:46,650 ] And would you say, and this is.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:19:51,400 ] Because these are all great.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:19:54,420 ] pointers and tips. But would you say that there’s really no set formula for meetings? It really depends on the team on the business needs.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:20:06,860 ] on whether the company is remote or in office would you say to all those leaders out there that there is no set formula and that it’s a matter of

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:20:17,830 ] testing new things, or is there a set formula?

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:20:21,310 ] I think there’s two things we could make formulaic and I think the rest is business specific, you know. What are those two things? So I think one of them is creating meeting norms. Some of the best companies in the world, Microsoft is an example, creates meeting norms. Basically, we all have wildly different ideas about how to. show up well in a meeting. You may think talking the most, this one person is the best way to contribute. Someone else thinks speaking rarely is the right thing to do. So here you’re setting up norms. Let’s be very clear. Interruptions are not allowed. Then you all have something to hold each other to. And you’re not just hoping. that people will heroically somehow get the message of how to behave you’re creating that together that set of norms so i think that’s one thing we can do I think the other thing is I really love to see teams come up with their own team warm-up questions.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:21:25,090 ] Like a really quick type of check-in question. And this is not realistic if you have 18 people in a meeting, but if you have a smaller group. um

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:21:36,720 ] It could be what’s one little W win. you’ve had this week. And people share anything personal life work, you know, could be the littlest thing. But what’s cool is when your team has their own question.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:21:50,860 ] you’ll start to see them encouraging each other. Oh, so-and-so signed up for a 5K. Then they’ll ask them about that later. How’s it go with the 5K, by the way? You know, and you see.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:22:02,170 ] it becomes a kind of safe way to build rapport, to share with each other. So think of what that is for you. um In my own team, we do one about like, what like gave you like a boost recently? And people will talk about everything from like something beautiful they saw to just the other day, my assistant said, my neighbor is like a beautiful violin player and listening to them play the violin while I worked was like heaven.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:22:32,290 ] Awesome. Yeah, those are great tips. And I think I’m going to start, we’re going to start implementing some of those. Maybe some warm up questions could be, what are you struggling with this week? If the meeting is on a Monday, for example. So who can you ask for help? And then maybe if a meeting is on a Friday. Hey, what has everyone done here that they feel proud of? How have you advanced your KPIs?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:22:58,990 ] Maybe that, yeah, maybe those are.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:23:03,739 ] intentional icebreakers, I would call it, I don’t know, where people are also learning what other teammates are doing, right? hey you’re struggling with that i have some experience let me help you out right um

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:23:16,080 ] And appreciating, I think too, appreciating in the process what so-and-so does because we’re so immersed in our own. we may not know all that these other folks are deep into.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:23:30,120 ] Yeah, I’m getting a lot of ideas right now for our 2026 meetings, and I really appreciate these pointers. I hope every leader out there who’s listening really takes some notes.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:23:40,230 ] And if we switch a little bit to confidence and self-advocacy.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:23:45,880 ] which is your forte, right? Your previous book and your newsletter has helped many individuals find confidence to speak up and advocate for themselves.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:23:57,630 ] But when we talk about managers, how can managers encourage self-advocacy within their teams in the workplace without undermining authority?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:24:10,300 ] What would be your advice?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:24:14,690 ] to both the top down and the bottom up when it relates to advocacy and authority and hierarchy, everything that we’re talking about, how. Does this go back to psychological safety? What would you say?

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:24:27,330 ] Well, it’s so important in corporate life, especially that you be able to speak to your value and your strengths. And so many people feel incredibly cringe about doing that.

SPEAKER_2

[ 00:24:41,130 ] Yeah.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:24:42,010 ] They just do. Could be cultural things they grew up with, could be Um, you know, family messages that were over. It could be the work culture they work in might be a very humble culture. And yet you need to be able to talk about. What you do, the value you provide, metrics and KPIs, for example, nobody on earth, not even the best boss is going to do that for you.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:25:06,330 ] Yeah.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:25:06,880 ] So I think one thing we can teach our people to do is. to self-promote. to a degree. And I don’t hear people talk about this. um but you know, encouraging them to test it out on us, the managers. You know, before we meet for your performance review, I want you to come and be ready to tell me about your biggest breakthroughs, et cetera. I want you to tell me about the strengths you see that are most distinct or important you’re bringing to the team. So some of it is let them practice those self-promotion skills with you. I think that’s really important.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:25:46,440 ] You know, because also the more informed you are about where they’re winning. You know, I got this accolade from a client or a senior executive complimented such and such. You now have good news to share. with higher ups and that stuff matters. I think another thing we can do as managers that is so helpful. Boy, do I wish I had known this as a young management consultant. I wish someone had pulled me aside and said, Selena.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:26:14,180 ] Be selectively excellent.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:26:17,770 ] You only have so much energy in a given day. Right. You can try to nail and give an A plus to every single thing you do. or you can really think about what’s important.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:26:32,240 ] What is critical? What is something where I can really show my stuff? versus, you know, what’s tedious? Where is good? Okay. You know, whereas maybe.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:26:45,580 ] getting my travel expenses. I don’t need to bring that. A plus energy to. I felt pressure to do that being in this high performing fancy firm. It felt like you needed to do that with everything. And I think we can teach our people.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:27:01,290 ] Um, This is what good looks like folks on the report.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:27:06,180 ] A perfectionism culture can be so toxic and draining to people, especially when it’s not necessary, when it’s not making a difference.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:27:16,410 ] Yeah, that makes total sense. And

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:27:20,310 ] Ah.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:27:22,030 ] I hate to say this, but

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:27:24,240 ] I mean, regardless of the generational shift that we’re going through, I mean, Recently, managers became the the

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:27:33,980 ] I mean, recently millennials became

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:27:36,820 ] the the management in the workplace right there are now more millennials in management positions than ever before though so millennials are officially managers soon to be maybe gen z right and It’s these generational shifts that will continue shaping the future of work and how we work. But I think one thing That is.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:27:56,980 ] I believe will never cease to exist, unfortunately, maybe is. the corporate ladder. And the people that want to lead or want that promotion or want that raise or want that recognition, like you mentioned, they need to make themselves visible. They need to speak on what they’re doing. And it’s happened to me.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:28:19,240 ] Before as a manager, right, where I don’t know, we had a team member that had not had any type of raise for five years. And then I found out because of looking at some Excel sheets. And I asked that person, like, why haven’t you raised your hand? You’ve had the same salary for five years. You’ve been doing more and more. Why?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:28:43,270 ] And it was that. They weren’t self-advocating. They felt cringe. They were like, well, I was hoping that you would look to see that I was doing a better job every year. But I think.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:28:56,230 ] If you’re not a manager and you’re listening to this. Managers are sometimes just. They just have so many things in their head that they sometimes forget to look. at these things. So it’s important that you bring them up.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:29:09,459 ] casually intentionally with a presentation with what you’re saying you know this is what i’ve done a portfolio so i think that’s great advice um For both employees to speak up to their mentors, to their managers, but also as a reminder for managers and leaders to.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:29:27,150 ] once a once a year once every six months let’s you got to make sure you know what everyone’s doing right

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:29:33,790 ] I think so. It’s almost shifting from a mindset of they must know. they must already know. yeah what i’m doing what’s going well my wins two they have no idea And I’m going to almost behave as though they don’t know.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:29:50,480 ] What a better way to take ownership. And a little way you could do this is even just to bake it into your one-on-ones. You know, here’s what I’ve worked on or my KPIs. Here’s what’s coming down the pipeline next. By the way, here are some wins things that went especially well. You know, where you’re. continually hearing about it, you’re not saving it up for once a year. um I think that can work really well and again the manager then has good news that they can share.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:30:20,300 ] Yeah. And as we speak about these generational shifts, like we said, millennials are now.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:30:28,100 ] They outnumber any type of managers in the workplace.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:30:33,300 ] And we’re seeing that younger generations reject this sort of hierarchy and boss image type thing.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:30:43,080 ] For those managing younger teams, be that

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:30:49,880 ] a boomer managing still a millennial or a millennial managing Gen Z. What?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:30:55,890 ] Who should be adapting their style?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:30:58,670 ] Should leaders be adapting to the younger generations or should the younger generations be adapting to leadership?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:31:06,260 ] That’s always, that’s. Everyone answers this question differently. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer, but you as an expert, what do you think?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:31:15,380 ] as we go through more and more generational shifts I mean, what’s the next one that’s coming? Gen Alpha, soon to be. I think currently it’s the moment. in the world of work where there are the most amount of generations. So it’s this mix of culture and thoughts and behaviors.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:31:37,270 ] Who should adapt? Who should be adapted?

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:31:40,320 ] The debate of the century, Daniel. I’ve never gotten such heated, spicy comments on LinkedIn as I have about Gen Z. especially for older generations. So my sense is that Gen Z will not conform and mold to what boomers perhaps are used to or want. that they will not. I just don’t see that as an option. And part of that is because if you think about Gen Z, they grew up in such a participative world. giving input to things the very game they’re playing they’re able to give input on right school projects so many things imagine that highly participative world and then coming to a workplace where meetings are sometimes monologues. where emails are written like a directive.

SPEAKER_3

[ 00:32:32,740 ] Mm hmm.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:32:33,390 ] um you know where People say, let’s be innovative, but like someone shoots down every idea offered.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:32:42,100 ] they have Gen Z has a problem with duplicity. And. I think the other thing they’re really challenging at work is they do not center. work. in their identity.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:32:54,320 ] And that’s the opposite of boomers, traditionally.

SPEAKER_2

[ 00:32:57,480 ] Yeah.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:32:57,740 ] Well, I think we need to make space. especially boomers to gen z to create some space on the couch right for not just someone who’s the goal getter, the ladder climber, the ambitious protege, but the person who wants to do a good enough job. who wants to come work nine to five, do a respectable job. and get their paycheck and leave. and not go the extra mile and give discretionary effort. That has to be okay.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:33:30,430 ] You know, so I think we’re needing to make a little more space and place for how people view work. And. I think that’s okay. There’s more skepticism and less loyalty.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:33:41,860 ] And, and so

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:33:44,780 ] I mean, It is the debate of the century and the way i see it is we have rumors in gen x right which are sort of leaving management positions and right now millennials i’m a millennial are within the leadership positions and they’re in a very interesting spot because here’s the old school thoughts

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:34:07,320 ] Gen Z is coming out with all these new ideas.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:34:13,380 ] And millennials are in this peculiar position in the middle. where they will be able to sort of either

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:34:21,460 ] mold what’s to come. based on what they decide to keep from here or take from here.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:34:28,770 ] Would you agree to that? And I think that’s maybe why research.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:34:33,260 ] suggests or proves that millennials are the most burnt out generation. They are in a very peculiar position and they have been for a while. I believe millennials will ultimately mold what’s to come in the next. 5, 10, 15 years. Would you agree with that statement? What thoughts do you have? I’m curious. And maybe it’s not a professional opinion, but your personal one.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:34:58,440 ] Yeah, I think that’s a really interesting idea. And I think of them as a kind of bridge generation. I see so many millennials in corporate. who are disillusioned by what be found. um wow, there’s not really a place to be entrepreneurial or, you know. this is it this is work you know there’s no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow everyone you know there’s no glamour no matter how much of a girl boss you dress like or you know How do we romanticize being like a corporate baddie? Like, look at the end of the day. There’s a lot of disillusionment I see in millennials, and I don’t blame them. um

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:35:42,120 ] I personally think it’s Gen Z that is going to make the biggest shift. And I just think it’s because I see millennials as a bridge generation. They’re kind of having to conform to what Gen Xers and boomers laid out.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:35:58,040 ] And. I think they’ve rebelled. They’re the most mental health aware. uh generation um And thank goodness for that, talking about burnout and bringing these issues to light. um But I think they, in terms of being change makers, I think they’re going to help with it. I think Gen Z is going to.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:36:22,350 ] make a more dramatic push.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:36:25,000 ] Okay, well then.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:36:27,160 ] i feel better now i’ll leave that to gen z when they take over

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:36:32,310 ] Put your feet up and relax, Daniel. That’s somebody else’s job.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:36:36,780 ] Oh, man. We’re nearing the end of our episode.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:36:43,060 ] I wanted to ask.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:36:45,030 ] for anyone who aspires to lead. but doesn’t see themselves as a traditional leader. what would your message be to them what what mindset skills or competencies should they focus on developing today and maybe this is more for gen z since they’re going to be taking over leadership soon or maybe those millennials that still haven’t reached the leadership position and want to They don’t feel like they. fit that puzzle? What’s your message to these people?

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:37:18,010 ] We all have people we respect, we admire, we look up to who do not have a huge title.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:37:26,530 ] And one of the things they do is they’re courageous. They’re often courageous. So I want to challenge you to do a 10% courage action every week. What is a place within your career, a micro brave act that you could do? Maybe it’s that cold pitch on LinkedIn to reach out to somebody you admire. Or it’s asking a VP at your company to lunch to get to know them or something like that. Writing to a book author. It could be anything. But just how could you work that muscle, even do one rep a week? just to get yourself warm and being courageous. Back to our self-promotion thought. Map your strengths. That is something you can do to show up as a leader. Because so many leaders that I’ve met and interviewed, They really nurtured their natural strengths into superpowers.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:38:24,880 ] And that’s not by accident. It’s because they focused, they invested. So know what those strengths out. Why do people seek you out? What do you get that continual praise for? Um, know what that is, because that’s going to be part of your leadership legacy. you know if you use it right

SPEAKER_3

[ 00:38:43,360 ] Yeah.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:38:43,920 ] and

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:38:45,250 ] You know, I think just remember leading. is influencing.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:38:50,720 ] It’s not a title.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:38:52,640 ] It’s the ability to influence, to move people. um so realize that. See yourself as a leader. That’s really the first step.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:39:02,410 ] Yeah. i think that’s great advice and something i want to add and it’s what you’re saying i mean

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:39:11,040 ] People that want to become leaders have to sort of.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:39:16,070 ] start stepping out of their comfort zone right because

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:39:22,390 ] In my opinion, when people become leaders and it’s happened to me, I will tell people. you will feel a lot of

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:39:30,140 ] discomfort being a leader. There are talks you need to have with people that you don’t want to have. There are things that you need to do that you don’t want to do.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:39:38,370 ] And that’s leadership, being uncomfortable, doing things, doing new things. And so if you do aspire to be that, know that you will be uncomfortable most of the time. Unless you start prepping for it, like you’re saying. How can I today step out of my comfort zone? How can I today? Because as a leader, I think

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:40:00,350 ] Maybe some people won’t relate, but I think I.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:40:03,590 ] I see a lot of leaders.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:40:05,830 ] admitting to

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:40:07,800 ] a certain level of discomfort on a daily basis so i think that’s excellent advice

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:40:14,280 ] Especially with these generations pushing and pulling in different directions, right? I think we can all do ourselves a favor to bring some self-compassion to managing and to accept that it’s kind of a beautiful mess.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:40:29,440 ] There’s no such thing as. really finishing it, being done with it, arriving at it. Work is never over.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:40:38,020 ] Yes, the work is never over.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:40:40,640 ] And the learning’s never over.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:40:42,620 ] Yeah.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:40:43,010 ] You know, there’s relief in that, that you don’t have to be perfect, but there’s also some acceptance that like. Just like a garden, this is never done. It needs continuous, you know, pruning and soil.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:40:57,890 ] Good ingredients.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:40:59,120 ] That’s actually funny because I constantly find myself telling myself.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:41:04,120 ] uh yes i’ll go to the movies with my friend just let me finish work real quick And I’ve learned to sort of identify that work is never over. If you leave life.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:41:17,650 ] to happen until work is over, you will not have a life.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:41:22,450 ] It’s like the fallacy of inbox zero. You know what I mean? When there’s nothing in my inbox, then I can leave for the day. That ain’t happening. And you’re so right. You’re so right. It’s a mindset shift.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:41:37,850 ] Yeah.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:41:38,540 ] again about the beautiful mess.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:41:40,500 ] Yep.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:41:42,660 ] Thank you so much, Celine. I’ve really enjoyed our conversation.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:41:46,840 ] I’m really curious to know.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:41:49,440 ] What will happen in 2026?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:41:52,820 ] And that’s why I love having conversations with experts such as yourself, because the insights that are provided um just really help people our listeners sort of know what’s to come but you yourself.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:42:07,430 ] um as we continue navigating the future of work and hybrid work and remote and generational shifts

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:42:16,110 ] What does the future of leadership?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:42:19,010 ] and management look like to you in 2026 and beyond? What’s your

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:42:25,130 ] What are your hopes? What are the things you hope stop happening? What’s your ideal utopia, if you will?

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:42:32,780 ] What an awesome question.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:42:35,060 ] What I don’t want to continue, there’s this surge currently right now in what’s called bossware. or surveillance culture.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:42:44,350 ] Ooh, okay. Yeah.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:42:45,690 ] So where every keystroke is being measured, every time you go off slack and your light goes from green to red, it’s being noted for how long. you took a break. And people are getting dinged for it. They’re getting in trouble.

SPEAKER_3

[ 00:43:00,770 ] Yeah.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:43:01,400 ] Let’s cut that out. Because utopia to me is a return to trust. and it’s trust as a productivity metric that actually when you extend trust to people and treat them like capable grownups. you know, you do see them bring more innovative ideas. You do see more ownership on their part over their work and their projects. um you do see more productivity.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:43:29,820 ] So that is my hope for 2026 and something AI can’t do for us, right? It can’t. be the trust. It can’t create feelings of safety and trust on a team. Only we can do that at this point. And so that’s what I’d like to see managers do. Stop over complicating it. bring it back to usefulness and humanity.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:43:55,010 ] That’s amazing. I love that. And

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:43:58,150 ] You said let’s return to trust.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:44:00,810 ] I’m with you there. Let’s forget return to office for a sec. Let’s forget return to home. How about we return to trust and then see what happens?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:44:11,260 ] Selena, thank you so much for your time. It was a pleasure. I hope we get to do this again soon, maybe midway next year. And let’s look back to see what we talked about. if it’s happening or not. I would really love that. Where can listeners learn more about your books that have been recently released, your workshops, your LinkedIn learning courses? I’m really eager to find those. How can people get in touch or find you more easily?

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:44:38,870 ] Yeah, well, you can find me at my website, which is selenarezvani.com. And my books, my newest one, Quick Leadership, are sold everywhere books are sold. So Barnes & Noble, Amazon, et cetera. And I make leadership content on video five days a week. So you can find me on LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok. Please join in, comment, share what you want to see more of, and I’ll make that content. And my LinkedIn Learning courses are in the LinkedIn Learning Library. Everything from motivation to building confidence to advocating for yourself. So I hope you’ll check them out.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:45:14,240 ] Awesome. Thank you so much. And we’ll be sure to link all those within our episode page. Thank you so much again. It was a pleasure meeting you and talking to you. And I hope we get to do it again soon.

Selena  Rezvani

[ 00:45:24,130 ] Thank you, Daniel. You’re so good at what you do. And just thank you for making future of work accessible to people.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:45:31,110 ] I really appreciate that. Thank you so much. Have a good one. You too.