The Hidden Powers of Microdosing Psychedelics in the Workplace with Peggy Van de Plassche

Daniel Lamadrid [00:00:49 ]:
Welcome, Peggy, welcome.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:00:52 ]:
Yes. Hi, Danielle. Such a pleasure to be here today.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:00:55 ]:
Yes, I’m really looking forward to the conversation. I think this is a topic that we’ve actually had you as an expert on in an article we recently published on all workspace, which, between you and me, it’s one of our top performing articles. I think it’s a subject that has still a little taboo surrounding it.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:01:17 ]:
Absolutely.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:01:18 ]:
And therefore, there is a lot of questions that need answering and who to better talk about this than you?

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:01:24 ]:
That’s fantastic. I’m so happy to hear that people are getting excited and want more education. I think that’s very important to educate people.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:01:33 ]:
For sure. And one of the how I’d like to begin is I was very intrigued how you have an extensive background, right, in the financial services and technology industry, and then you shifted into this whole microdosing. What inspired you to transition from tech, from finance into the psychedelic industry? And were there psychedelics involved?

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:02:03 ]:
That’s a good question. And I would say yes, absolutely. So I will answer from two perspectives, a very rational perspective and the more emotional perspective. So the rational perspective is, you mentioned I’m a former finance person. I used to invest in companies. So the size of the market of a psychedelic market is around 2 billion today, and it’s supposed to be around 11 billion in a few years. So just the size of the market is a very interesting opportunity for me, that it’s going to grow and that is fed by a few things. First is the number of clinical studies you’re seeing that are really, really supporting the space. A lot of changes in regulation that are also supporting the space. Some destigmatization. Even if it is still something that can raise some eyebrows, it is still getting a bit more front and center. And I would say the last thing is really media coverage, and what you’re doing, for example, really, really fuels, you know, the size of the market and the opportunity. So that is really my rational mind of why I went in that market, because I think there is a lot of opportunities. My more emotional mind is, well, it works. And to your point, psychedelics were involved in my decision, and I will tell you more about that. But I. I doubled, I would say, with psychedelics for my own mental health. And when I saw the incredible results I got, I was, oh my God, so many people need that. And you mentioned I was in finance, I was in technology. So I can tell you these are two industries where people really need more support for their mental health. And that was the more emotional aspect of it, where I really, really wanted to be there to support that change in the healthcare system. So that’s really why I made that transition.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:04:18 ]:
That’s very interesting, because I think what I’m understanding is the shift was, in fact, in and of itself a business decision. It’s a big industry that is growing, per the statistics that you’re presenting. And I also understand the, the emotional side of it. I’ve had two psychedelic experiences, if I’m being honest. The first one was not, let’s just say it was more recreative than really holistic. And then after that, I just thought a psychedelic in itself was a drug and it was a no no. But after that, I’ve actually tried micro dosing for work, and that has worked. But we’ll get into that in a little bit. I think a lot of our audience members will have the question, if they’re not familiar with the term, what is a psychedelic? What is it? And we define what’s a psychedelic. What does it mean to microdose?

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:05:19 ]:
Yeah, so psychedelics, it’s very simple. It’s a substance that is psychoactive. So what does that mean? Is that it. Perception, mood, cognitive processes. So that’s what it means to be a psychedelic, microdosing? Well, it’s also, I would say, quite simple when you think about it. It’s taking microdose of a substance. It doesn’t have to be psychedelic. So some people microdose ozempicna. So it’s simply this idea of what is the smallest dose I can take to get the benefits and not to get in the context of psychedelics, the eye. So when you microdose psychedelics, you take very small dose. For example, if it’s psilocybin, so magic mushroom, it’s going to be 100 milligrams every other day or every three days. If you’re doing a big trip, like maybe you have done and some people do in a more maybe healing or shamanique way, you’re going to take three to 5 grams. So 100 milligrams versus three to 5 grams. So that’s the big difference. And the beauty of microdosing is actually that it doesn’t at all impact your day to day life. Maybe it’s the same that someone who’s taking omega three or vitamin C, they don’t feel any physical change. It works in the background, it works in the body, but it doesn’t interfere with your day. That’s micro dosing.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:06:55 ]:
Yeah. And I totally agree, because, like I said, I tried microdosing, and I currently live in Puerto Vallarta. And it’s a place within Mexico where access to drugs in general is very easy. Right. And there’s a lot of holistic communities here, shamans and such. And as I started taking the microdose, as the person prescribed it to me, it was one pill a day. They sold me 30 pills. I think it was one pill a day, resting on the weekends.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:07:31 ]:
Okay, so you do Monday to Friday?

Daniel Lamadrid [00:07:35 ]:
Yes. And at first, I didn’t really feel anything, but as I maybe, I think day three, day four, I just started feeling more relaxed, more. Why do I need to stress about this? What is the problem? Let me find it. I was more, even more communicative with my team members. Let me pick them up. Let’s talk about it. I think it just opened my mind to other possibilities, if that even is a good description.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:08:04 ]:
And so that’s great that you experienced it firsthand, because here we can see the three type of benefits. I see usually with micro dosing.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:08:15 ]:
What are the benefits? Yes.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:08:16 ]:
So the first one is what you mentioned with mental wellness, reduction in anxiety, reduction of stress, reduction for some people, of signs of depression. So it really, really helps you to boost your mood and, you know, remove these maybe dark glasses that some people have, that I used to have, and it calm your nervous system. So that is exactly what you’re saying with why stress? Because your nervous system is quite dead. So that is really a huge, huge benefit. The second type of benefits is connection. Connection to yourself and connection to others. So that increased empathy, increased connection, really help with your communication. So in the context of work, obviously, you know, working with your colleague, your employees, your boss, it’s really, really helpful to have, I would say, very mindful leadership. And the third type of benefits, and you haven’t touched on it but we will touch on it later. It’s really the performance and it’s this increased focus, this increased attention, this increased presence and creativity. So you can see all these three buckets, whether less anxiety, less stress, better connection to others, and increased focus and attention can have a massive impact on people at the office, but also at home and everywhere in between.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:09:48 ]:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, and all of those things, I felt them. I think this is the first time I actually go public and saying I’ve tried microdosing. And what I worry is, and this is the next thing I’d like to ask you, is it’s still very taboo.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:10:04 ]:
It is.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:10:05 ]:
I don’t know what my boss would say when he listened to our episode, when I just said I microdosed at work. What do you think?

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:10:13]:
I hope when you listen to that, he’s going to realize that he has Daniel 2.0 and that he benefits from the fact that you are way more productive and we’re more collaborative. You know what I mean?

Daniel Lamadrid [00:10:25 ]:
The company now should pay for my microdot.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:10:27 ]:
And that’s actually, you know, where I hope we’re going to get in a few years where companies and healthcare systems gonna understand. You know, you received a few episodes ago a lady that was amazing. She worked, she spoken burnout.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:10:44 ]:
Yes, doctor Sandra.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:10:45 ]:
Yes, Sandra, exactly. And she was mentioning the cost of burnout. And I mean burnout is just a small cost for the economy. You know, mental health is, you know, I think it’s a 3 trillion cost a year for the world economy that is supposed to double by 2030. So that gives you a good idea. So the stigma we’re talking about today is unfortunately a stigma that is from the fifties, sixties, seventies, I should say more seventies, because in the fifties and the sixties, a lot of research was ongoing with psychedelics. And actually psychedelics were prescribed at the time, especially for treatment of addiction, especially for alcoholism.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:11:34 ]:
Okay.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:11:35 ]:
And unfortunately President Nixon decided the war on drugs erupting all the countries in that decision, which I don’t think was a very smart one, unfortunately. And that put out to all the research, but in order for them to implement that, they had to do a lot of disinformation on psychedelics. And you heard all these stories of people who lost their eyesight or you know, like things that are pure figment of people imagination, but that created so much damage that in 2024, despite the data, the studies, we still face this stigma. And it’s funny, I was speaking this morning with a friend who started microdosing. He lives in Portugal and he’s very happy with the results, but he’s like, wow, I’m not gonna put that on my LinkedIn. And that’s the thing, is that tons of people I spoken with are telling me whether they’re microdosing, whether they had experiences with larger dose, but it’s still very much under the COVID But it’s coming. I think it’s getting destigmatized, but we’re not there yet, unfortunately. That’s why education, what you’re doing right now is so important.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:12:58 ]:
Well, what you’re doing, and that’s why I’m very thankful for this. Would you say in your experience that maybe in the western world, where I currently am, the Americas, there’s more of a stigma than maybe in Europe? Would you say that is true?

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:13:15 ]:
Absolutely not. So I just came back from France. I’m french. I’m sure everyone can hear that, and there is no way I can iron my accent. And I would say it’s even worse in the sense that they have very little clinical studies ongoing. And I’m removing the Netherlands, because the Netherlands is a specific country with very progressive laws when it comes to psychedelics. But if I’m taking example, like France, it’s not on the radar whatsoever. So if you look here, I was talking a bit in the intro, but media coverage, you have a lot of media coverage on psychedelics. So Harvard Business Review, September October edition, they did a double page on will psychedelics propel your career? And one of the books showcased was my book. But you will never see that in Europe. It’s not on the radar. While Wall Street Journal, the economies, or. Or Bazaar, you know, like Feminine magazine, you see it everywhere, podcast, we discuss that. Absolutely not on the radar in Europe. So actually, we are ahead of. Australia is doing very well. Australia is really ahead of the curve. But continental Europe, excluding the Netherlands, extremely backward.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:14:44 ]:
Okay. Oh, wow. I would have never thought that. I’ve always had this impression that the european market, if you will, would be more open minded. But that’s very interesting. That’s very interesting to hear.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:14:56]:
Well, you can find the products, but unfortunately, not only it’s always the gray or black market, and it’s never in the context of healing. It’s just recreational. So, you know, I remember when I was a teenager, which was 30 years ago, it was already very easy to find magic mushroom, as I’m sure it is still the case, but it was never in the context of, oh, can I improve my mental health with it, or can I improve my performance? It’s just, okay, people are going to a party and, you know, they enjoy mushroom, which anyway, to each its own. I’m not saying, but that’s the thing that is really missing in Europe. It’s education. Yeah, it’s this aspect that psychedelics is not just recreational, actually, it should be first and foremost for healing and for performance.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:15:50 ]:
Yeah, I definitely get that. And I mean, if we dive into the recreational side, I think most psychedelics are even safer than these other things that people do to be recreative, if you will.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:16:02]:
Absolutely.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:16:03 ]:
Magic mushrooms, it’s the land.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:16:04]:
It’s safer if alcohol is a very good example, because when I speak with people about legality, about health safety, I always take the example of alcohol. You know, the only I would say challenge to get alcohol is to be above 19 or 21, depending on the country you’re in. And after that it’s a free for all. And we all know that alcohol is responsible for tremendous health burdens and society burdens, domestic violence crimes, all of that. But there is no regulation around that. While you say psychedelics, there is no addiction. No one has ever overdosed with psychedelics, and you don’t have a negative effect on your body. Actually, psychedelics are studied right now to reduce inflammation. So it’s very interesting to see, and it’s historical, you know, one day at a time, you know. So alcohol is embedded in our culture. It’s impossible to. Or it’s going to be very difficult. And trust me, I like to have a glass of wine. I’m not saying, but yeah, you know, it’s also a part of, you know, the fun of living, you know, like, it’s like everything in moderation. And that’s the thing that unfortunately, we need to unweave in the society culture in order to really understand. When people talk to me about legality, well, what’s legal is very different from what is ethical.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:17:39 ]:
Yes.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:17:39 ]:
And that’s also something people have challenges sometimes understanding.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:17:44]:
And I think we’re at the best point in time where we can start looking at psychedelics or microdosing within a workplace environment as something that shouldn’t be looked down on. I mean, we’re at a point in the future of work where why are we working five days? Some countries are not working for. It’s better for everyone. We’re at a point where why do we need to commute 3 hours every day? Why can’t we work? I think we’re at a point in the world of work where we can start taking a look at things differently and really erase those stigmas and paradigms that we’re speaking of. Right. Why are we, like, in 1950?

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:18:29 ]:
Exactly. Yeah. And, you know, when you’re talking about the future of work, that is exactly the future of work. It’s making sure that your employees have good, solid mental health. And if you’re not doing it out of your great art, do it out of your bottom line, because, you know, it is extremely costly to have employees in Bernard or even just, you know, not interested by their job. If you can have employees that are less stressed, less anxious, better collaborator, more focused, I mean, who wouldn’t want their workforce, you know, like that?

Daniel Lamadrid [00:19:10]:
But then what do you think is, like, the biggest barrier between maybe an entire company or a specific department within a company or any business or leader? What is. What is the biggest barrier you think is holding back companies from even trying? Like, the legal aspect is still just the stigma. What do you see? What have you.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:19:36 ]:
I think, you know, 95% it’s the legality, I would say. I should say 99.9% is the legality. Because what company is going to put themselves at risk by saying, if it’s illegal in. Because that’s also the challenge is that especially in the US, everything is done like the city, the county, the state, the federal. So everyone has a different legislation. So it’s very complicated. So if you are. Even if you are in, let’s say, a state that has legalized magic mushroom, you know, you don’t want to be in a situation when one of your employees working remotely from a state where it is not actually something that is legal. That creates a lot of challenge. So, actually, I do a public speaking keynote to explain the roles and responsibilities of organization with that race in psychedelics, because more and more employees are taking psychedelics, you know, without, obviously, the knowledge of their employers. And that can create some challenges for the company. But at the same time, I want company to understand and have compassion. People are doing that because, again, better mental health, better performance. So it’s. It’s a very weird situation where it is actually benefiting the employers, but it is not legal. And to your point, there is still stigma. I think when things will be legalized, the stigma slowly will, you know, will decrease. But I think the biggest, biggest barrier is really, really legality of it.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:21:24 ]:
Yeah, the legality, the regulations of each country. I think also the key word here is companies or businesses. They want to avoid liability.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:21:35 ]:
Exactly.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:21:36]:
Liability. That’s what it comes down to. What if I’m giving, as a mental health wellness program, my employees a micro dosing option and maybe one employee isn’t doing it how they should and they actually end up doing something bad. Well, I gave it to them. They were within the work schedule, so that’s liability to me. But I think, like you said, just starting to speak more about this, we can start finding the ways.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:22:03 ]:
Exactly. Exactly. Because, you know, micro dosing will have absolutely no risk on the workforce. Again, the only challenge can be, okay, someone is taking products of low quality. That’s the problem. That can happen with any supplements. You’re buying supplements on Amazon Alpha. Them are fake. So, you know, you can have the same challenge with your omega three, or they’re not taking the right dosage as you mentioned, or they’re taking it too often. But everything we’re talking about here can happen with any substance. You know, like most of the people I work with, they’ve been an antidepressant or anti anxiety medication for more than 20 years, some of them for like 30, 35 years. Well, if tomorrow morning they decide that they are going to take ten times the dose and they’re going to take it three times more often, well, that’s going to create a big problem, but no one’s going to question the medication. So that’s the thing that is very interesting for me with psychedelics is the cognitive dissonance is the fact that it is not different for any other psychoactive substance. But somehow psychedelics were hung up on it as if we needed so much more protection than anything else that we’re selling like candies at the corner store. And that is very puzzling to me.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:23:33 ]:
Yeah, I think, I mean, I am almost sure that, you know, how we, I, for example, take vitamin, vitamin C C supplements. I believe that if you take too many, that’s harmful. So it’s all about dosing. We are, in theory, micro dosing on vitamin C. We are exactly. On whatever you call it.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:23:55 ]:
Exactly.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:23:56 ]:
And I’m actually going to go out and make a bold statement here that I think the whole limbo that psychedelics are in and magic mushrooms is in is because I believe that if in the near future, this whole topic is more destigmatized and people actually start seeing the proven results, that’s going to affect some industries. That will happen.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:24:21]:
Absolutely. Big pharma. Exactly.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:24:24]:
That have used psychedelics for depression, for OCD and whatnot. And they’ve also done the psychiatric way and they were like, the psychiatric medication hurt me more. It was my depression, but then it gave me anxiety or it was doing this. And I think there’s something in there that. Absolutely in limbo. Let’s keep it in limbo, because, well.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:24:50 ]:
And Daniel, you know, like, I mean, it’s always full of the money. When you see things happening very fast and when you see things happening very slow, you know, what’s. What’s behind the curtain. And to your point, you know, big pharma, I was mentioning people who’ve been on, you know, prescribed drugs like antidepressant, anti anxiety for 25, 30 years. Well, it’s recurring revenue. And the beauty of this mitigation, and I’m sorry, I’m using the word beauty, it’s very ironic, is that it doesn’t heal you. It just maintains you. So you’re always a client of. I mean, that’s called a drug dealer in my world, you know, when. When you cannot get off something, you know?

Daniel Lamadrid [00:25:37 ]:
So it’s really interesting. So you created the microdose diet.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:25:46 ]:
Yeah.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:25:47 ]:
Tell me a little bit about the microdose diet. And if you have any examples of people, businesses, or leaders that have tried it and have seen results, because in that article that we were talking about at the beginning, which we will link to our episode, you sort of suggested that psychedelics might soon make it to the boardrooms, to companies.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:26:11 ]:
Oh, it’s already there.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:26:13 ]:
It’s already there. Okay. So what are you seeing with you’ve created and how people are using it and how it’s helping them?

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:26:22 ]:
Yes. So, for context for people who are listening. So the microdose date is a prototype. So there is obviously, one of the tools is microdosing, but there are other tools associated with that, tapping, meditation, visualization, and so on. It’s a 90 day plan, really. And the goal is really to elevate the practice of micro dosing, not just popping up the pill, because psychedelic, the goal here, we’re using their ability to rewire the brain. So it’s really about neuroplasticity, but you want to know and be in control of what you’re rewiring your brain with. So the microdose diet is really about that to help shed the limiting belief and replace them with more expensive belief that’s gonna. That are going to help you. So that really is, I would say, the context of a microdose diet, the program, and I would say it was really the book of the protocol I wished I had 20 years ago. My life would have been so much easier if I had that. So I wrote the book hoping that people would benefit from that and have a bit of a shortcut. Let’s put it that way. And I would say the root, the core principle of a microdose diet is really about getting more of your life. And if you’re anxious, if you’re depressed, if you’re stressed, well, you’re not really living, and I’m air quoting your best life because you’re very in a protective type of mindset, which is where I operated for so long. And, you know, in my career, everyone would have looked at my career and would have said, wow, she’s super successful. And yes, on paper, I was super successful, but I was miserable because it was eating me alive, you know, the stress, the anxiety, the depression. And I’m not saying it was just the thought of my career, you know, like, there was a lot of other factors, you know, that were playing, but it was probably also fueling, fueling all of that. So for me, it’s really about how can people enjoy what we’re doing? How many people who are listening today? I mean, maybe you related to that, to some of your past activities where you’re just going through the motion and you don’t understand because, well, on paper, I have everything, but still, you’re just empty. And that’s really why I put that protocol in place, to be able to play at a higher level. That’s really the goal. And so in terms of success stories, well, I’m just going to give you a few examples. So I had this lovely lady was a lawyer, but she was so anxious, she couldn’t ask for a raise. She couldn’t ask for a promotion because she was in her head, she was living with this fear of being fired. She was a good employee, so there was no reason. And so we worked together. And so actually she asked for a partnership, which she got, and now she’s able to take vacation because she dare asking. So, you know, it’s things like that that it’s about creating space, breaking these patterns of thoughts. And that’s really the neuroplasticity we’re talking about breaking these patterns of thoughts where you think there is only two dolls, it’s black or it’s white. And I saw it with another lady who actually dared changing job and asked for a job that was more senior, but she had such low self worth that she never dared doing that. So it’s a lot of very specific cases. Personally, for me, that was my performance. And actually, I need to be careful the other way around. I have to work way less now because if I keep the same rhythm of walking, it’s so intense, I’m burning out so I have to see if I used to do 8 hours, which was more 10 hours, let’s be honest. Now I can work only three 4 hours. I produce the same type of output, but I do it in such a short period of time because I removed the noise.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:30:56]:
Yeah.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:30:57 ]:
So you’re just working on what matters with a focus of 100%. So you see this entire range because we’re focusing right now on work is a feature of work. But if you remove your anxiety in your life, trust me, every aspect of your life, not just your career, is going to skyrocket. If you’re more performant, more creative, even your life at home is going to be more exciting. You know, we’re not islands, you know, like we live. So that’s. That’s what the microdose diet is. And that’s the type of results people could expect for themselves if they’re following the protocol. Yeah.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:31:36 ]:
Awesome. We’ll definitely be linking the book to our episode page so people can get a better understanding of what it is and sort of to wrap up our episode. I mean, again, this is so very interesting. How do you envision the world of work, the future of work, when it comes to psychedelics and microdosing, what do you see in the future? Do you see less stigma, more regulation, the same amount of regulation? Do you see more businesses trying this out as a measure to keep their workforces more productive, to avoid burnout? Maybe even Justin, as a company perk, what do you experiences towards the future?

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:32:21 ]:
Yeah, and I would say there is maybe a couple of scenarios. Very rosy scenario is you’re going to see legalization, you’re going to see destigmatization, and hence, to your point, companies supporting employees in that direction, and which means obviously, corporate wellness program reimbursed by insurance, all of that. So that is really, I would say the best case scenario for everyone. The less best case scenario is, well, things don’t get legalized fast or it’s very difficult to access, and people will do exactly what they’re doing right now. They’re just going to do it under the COVID and they’re still gonna get the benefit. It’s unfortunate because that means a great number of people will not dare doing it. But I still see, you know, we’re laughing about people doing it in the boardroom, but I see, trust me, I see CEO’s of large companies, board members or very large companies, they micro dose, you know, like because they’re like, well, that’s good for me. I don’t see why I wouldn’t do it. So it really, hopefully, right now I believe it’s going to be towards scenario one. But you never know. If Big Pharma decide to show their teeth, that might be a scenario, too.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:33:45 ]:
I look forward to seeing how this develops in the future. Honestly, I think as of right now, the whole topic on micro dosing and psychedelics should be maybe a personal choice. We’re not at that stage where it’s a given, but I’m really looking forward to seeing how this develops in the future. And, Peggy, I appreciate the time you’ve taken here to discuss it with us. I’m sure that with this that we’re doing here, even just talking about it, it’ll start making people ask themselves more questions.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:34:20]:
Exactly.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:34:21 ]:
Especially people within leadership positions and higher ranking physicians who ultimately have a final say on whether or not this is something that their entire company or workforce as a whole can benefit from, or even just start testing it out. The four day work week is not let’s do it all. The entire world, they’re testing it here. They’re testing it.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:34:43 ]:
Exactly.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:34:44 ]:
They’re seeing benefits. So hopefully, just like the four day work week, which we’re starting to see more of an introduction to in certain companies, certain industries, certain countries, maybe the same will happen for psychedelics within the workplace.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:34:58]:
And the last word is very often it is also personal experience. So people who themselves suffer from mental health, who have a spouse, a brother, a father, and you see a lot of changes coming that are coming initially from personal experience. CEO’s chairmen are not immune to mental health challenges. So it is almost good for us because that means they are looking for solutions as well.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:35:29 ]:
That’s amazing. Yeah, I think that will be the case. Again, Peggy, thank you so much for joining us.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:35:35 – Peggy Van de Plassche
Thank you.

Daniel Lamadrid [00:35:36 ]:
Talking in the future again, and to all of our listeners, make sure to visit the future Work podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube. We’ll leave you the links of the articles that we’ve been talking about, the micro dosing diet, the book, and again, thank you so much, Peggy.

Peggy Van de Plassche [00:35:52]:
Thank you.